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Post by azvike83 on Jul 7, 2019 8:54:32 GMT -5
Thanks Tom for putting this together . I'm a '15 alum and agree with the post about local Cleveland media investigating the situation in the program .Looking forward to following with you all- if they can have a top25 program in Buffalo , why can't we have a winning team here ? Tom isnt involved with this at all. Deluxe created the site and I am going to be helping. We just decided to create one ourselves after all the craziness this offseason. Thanks to both of you then....
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Post by ede on Jul 7, 2019 9:23:46 GMT -5
They would've made a good run i felt. At my wits end with this program.
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Post by ac on Jul 7, 2019 10:04:53 GMT -5
Everyone is over reacting. Let's be positive. Dunn replaces Applebys numbers Taylor replaces Hill. Justin Hill replaces Williams. Patton replaces Millner ( this might actually be true people down state say he can play) Add the 2 bigs. Championship
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Post by theonetheonly on Jul 7, 2019 15:21:59 GMT -5
Tom isnt involved with this at all. Deluxe created the site and I am going to be helping. We just decided to create one ourselves after all the craziness this offseason. Thanks to both of you then.... I don’t think either one of us are looking for credit. I’m not sure why Tom shut the other forum down. I just didn’t want anyone to come back on him if something is said or done on this forum. Just direct it to Delux or me and will try to get it taken care of. A large enough chunk of posters know who we are in real life if something needs done on the site.
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Post by theonetheonly on Jul 7, 2019 15:23:59 GMT -5
Everyone is over reacting. Let's be positive. Dunn replaces Applebys numbers Taylor replaces Hill. Justin Hill replaces Williams. Patton replaces Millner ( this might actually be true people down state say he can play) Add the 2 bigs. Championship Dunn isn’t Appleby and that’s been made real clear by people close to the program. The biggest gap though I have been told is Hill. They just don’t have anyone that can give them anything close to what Hill gave them last year.
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Post by ac on Jul 7, 2019 15:29:14 GMT -5
I know I was being sarcastic.
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Post by ede on Jul 7, 2019 17:09:57 GMT -5
Everyone is over reacting. Let's be positive. Dunn replaces Applebys numbers Taylor replaces Hill. Justin Hill replaces Williams. Patton replaces Millner ( this might actually be true people down state say he can play) Add the 2 bigs. Championship players like Applybe are special. Then there is the team chemistry part Patton is too small to replace Milner. This team will finish last.
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Post by theonetheonly on Jul 7, 2019 18:10:31 GMT -5
Everyone is over reacting. Let's be positive. Dunn replaces Applebys numbers Taylor replaces Hill. Justin Hill replaces Williams. Patton replaces Millner ( this might actually be true people down state say he can play) Add the 2 bigs. Championship players like Applybe are special. Then there is the team chemistry part Patton is too small to replace Milner. This team will finish last. I don’t think it’s a guarantee they finish last. The conference as a whole is a lot worse this year. The only team that really should be better from a talent standpoint is Wright State. That being said if they finish better then 7th I would be shocked.
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Post by ede on Jul 7, 2019 18:35:43 GMT -5
Felton and Garret need to explain what the hell happened. Williams is now at Oakland and Tyree will probably go High Major. I haven't felt this bad about this program sense the Garland years. Hell i just saw Tyree and the others on Twitter no later than June 21 doing community service for the team the suddenly bamm!!! They all bolt. That tells something very dramatic happened. Felton needs to explain this, but he won't, he's on twitter acting as if nothing happened. Wtf!!!
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Post by theonetheonly on Jul 7, 2019 18:54:12 GMT -5
Felton and Garret need to explain what the hell happened. Williams is now at Oakland and Tyree will probably go High Major. I haven't felt this bad about this program sense the Garland years. Hell i just saw Tyree and the others on Twitter no later than June 21 doing community service for the team the suddenly bamm!!! They all bolt. That tells something very dramatic happened. Felton needs to explain this, but he won't, he's on twitter acting as if nothing happened. Wtf!!! Nothing he could explain would make any of this better. No media to question him anyway. No major donors to answer to either. They can just both stick their head in the sand and no one will hold them accountable. As for Williams his is different then the rest of the players. Expect him to be eligible at Oakland next season.
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Post by gbanks on Jul 7, 2019 21:10:25 GMT -5
Felton and Garret need to explain what the hell happened. Williams is now at Oakland and Tyree will probably go High Major. I haven't felt this bad about this program sense the Garland years. Hell i just saw Tyree and the others on Twitter no later than June 21 doing community service for the team the suddenly bamm!!! They all bolt. That tells something very dramatic happened. Felton needs to explain this, but he won't, he's on twitter acting as if nothing happened. Wtf!!! Nothing he could explain would make any of this better. No media to question him anyway. No major donors to answer to either. They can just both stick their head in the sand and no one will hold them accountable. As for Williams his is different then the rest of the players. Expect him to be eligible at Oakland next season. Interesting, you just revealed information not known to me before. You are implying there are external factors behind Williams decision to leave. Tyree was always a risk to leave this summer. Given his body of work and 2 years left, it is his best time to leave. Hill's xfer is more of a mystery. He only has 1 year left. Therefore, another school picking him up does not look as attractive. He is counting on another program to invest in 2 years for 1 year of playing time.
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Post by theonetheonly on Jul 8, 2019 16:44:26 GMT -5
Nothing he could explain would make any of this better. No media to question him anyway. No major donors to answer to either. They can just both stick their head in the sand and no one will hold them accountable. As for Williams his is different then the rest of the players. Expect him to be eligible at Oakland next season. Interesting, you just revealed information not known to me before. You are implying there are external factors behind Williams decision to leave. Tyree was always a risk to leave this summer. Given his body of work and 2 years left, it is his best time to leave. Hill's xfer is more of a mystery. He only has 1 year left. Therefore, another school picking him up does not look as attractive. He is counting on another program to invest in 2 years for 1 year of playing time. Disagree on Hill. Grad transfer that you reopen the scholarship immediately for next year. Any team that has open scholarships could use him. He can start at most mid majors and be a solid player off the bench for some high major teams. Also why spend your final season with a team going nowhere and a dead duck of a coach. He can find a team that has a shot at the tournament. He actually would be a great fit for Wright State if he wants to stay in the conference.
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Post by gbanks on Jul 8, 2019 19:00:24 GMT -5
Interesting, you just revealed information not known to me before. You are implying there are external factors behind Williams decision to leave. Tyree was always a risk to leave this summer. Given his body of work and 2 years left, it is his best time to leave. Hill's xfer is more of a mystery. He only has 1 year left. Therefore, another school picking him up does not look as attractive. He is counting on another program to invest in 2 years for 1 year of playing time. Disagree on Hill. Grad transfer that you reopen the scholarship immediately for next year. Any team that has open scholarships could use him. He can start at most mid majors and be a solid player off the bench for some high major teams. Also why spend your final season with a team going nowhere and a dead duck of a coach. He can find a team that has a shot at the tournament. He actually would be a great fit for Wright State if he wants to stay in the conference. Are you sure Hill graduated? I don't think he is a grad xfer. If he came to CSU from JUCO as Junior, this year he is considered a senior. Otherwise Verbal Commits would indicate he is immediately eligible. Unless you are saying, if he sits out a year, then he xfer's again. At that point, he would be considered a grad xfer with immediate eligibility. I would hate the be the school that carries him for a year, just to see his final year go to someone else. Now that you put that way, that would be even a greater deterrent to recruit him. I will agree with your statement, if he indeed graduated from CSU.
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Post by theonetheonly on Jul 9, 2019 7:54:40 GMT -5
Disagree on Hill. Grad transfer that you reopen the scholarship immediately for next year. Any team that has open scholarships could use him. He can start at most mid majors and be a solid player off the bench for some high major teams. Also why spend your final season with a team going nowhere and a dead duck of a coach. He can find a team that has a shot at the tournament. He actually would be a great fit for Wright State if he wants to stay in the conference. Are you sure Hill graduated? I don't think he is a grad xfer. If he came to CSU from JUCO as Junior, this year he is considered a senior. Otherwise Verbal Commits would indicate he is immediately eligible. Unless you are saying, if he sits out a year, then he xfer's again. At that point, he would be considered a grad xfer with immediate eligibility. I would hate the be the school that carries him for a year, just to see his final year go to someone else. Now that you put that way, that would be even a greater deterrent to recruit him. I will agree with your statement, if he indeed graduated from CSU. Option 1 is he enrolled in the summer prior to his junior year and has been taking classes this summer. It’s possible he finished a degree this summer. It might have played a role in him delaying his announcement to ensure that he was graduating this summer. Option 2 he claims some sort of misconduct with the the coaching staff and the NCAA is going to be unlikely to block his transfer. Whether the allegations are true or not their is a reason that this noise is out there. This will be more dependent on where he ends up and if that school has the resources to get this pushed through.
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Post by theonetheonly on Jul 9, 2019 8:02:21 GMT -5
Based off of what I have been told, I would say for eligibility at their new team next year I would put:
Williams at 95%
Hill at 75%
Appleby at 50%
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Post by azvike83 on Jul 9, 2019 12:34:34 GMT -5
Based off of what I have been told, I would say for eligibility at their new team next year I would put: Williams at 95% Hill at 75% Appleby at 50% Who cares?...they are gone. What about Beck's chances?
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Post by theonetheonly on Jul 9, 2019 15:45:34 GMT -5
Based off of what I have been told, I would say for eligibility at their new team next year I would put: Williams at 95% Hill at 75% Appleby at 50% Who cares?...they are gone. What about Beck's chances? Obviously those of us discussing it care. Williams will be playing against us this year. There is a chance Hill will be playing against us also. Appleby will be out of conference transfer. I haven’t heard from anyone about him being eligible this year so my guess is no but with the NCAA you never know for sure.
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Post by gbanks on Jul 9, 2019 20:38:08 GMT -5
Are you sure Hill graduated? I don't think he is a grad xfer. If he came to CSU from JUCO as Junior, this year he is considered a senior. Otherwise Verbal Commits would indicate he is immediately eligible. Unless you are saying, if he sits out a year, then he xfer's again. At that point, he would be considered a grad xfer with immediate eligibility. I would hate the be the school that carries him for a year, just to see his final year go to someone else. Now that you put that way, that would be even a greater deterrent to recruit him. I will agree with your statement, if he indeed graduated from CSU. Option 1 is he enrolled in the summer prior to his junior year and has been taking classes this summer. It’s possible he finished a degree this summer. It might have played a role in him delaying his announcement to ensure that he was graduating this summer. Option 2 he claims some sort of misconduct with the the coaching staff and the NCAA is going to be unlikely to block his transfer. Whether the allegations are true or not their is a reason that this noise is out there. This will be more dependent on where he ends up and if that school has the resources to get this pushed through. Since you are speculating: Option 3: he does not have enough credits to graduate from CSU this year and he sits out a year. either way I'm good. He chose a path and it's done. Time to speculate on this year's team.
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Post by Bobby Mc on Jul 9, 2019 21:10:19 GMT -5
So, I guess I should say something.
The second I heard that Appleby and Jalaam Hill were transferring, on top of the Williams and Millner transfers, I considered this an extinction level event for Cleveland State.
A week later, I feel no differently.
For those of you who think that Jalaam Hill is still in school to finish his degree, the Instagram Story of his last day in Cleveland, complete with a scan of his entry into the transfer portal, tells a different story. He's sitting out a year, no doubt about it. Same thing with Appleby, and it looks like Texas A&M and Florida are the likely suitors.
A reminder that not even a week prior to his departure, Appleby was tweeting he was striving for next year's NBA Draft. Clearly a lot can change in a short amount of time.
While I can't speak to allegations of abuse by Felton, what I can say is the following: The only reason Rashad Williams is transferring is family-related. And Felton's reaction to it? Well, he flipped out, even knowing what was going on with Williams and his family. That clearly didn't sit well with some CSU players.
But this kind of started before then, like when Cleveland State started the conference schedule 0-8. You know, in January, when clearly nobody was minding the store in Athletics, as evidenced by the swim team's shenanigans that led to the resignation of two associate ADs.
However, in spite of it all, the team still planned to power through and work towards next season.
And then some final, as-yet-unexplained transgression took place. And that was a bridge too far for Appleby and Hill. And probably Millner. And maybe others not named Kash Thomas or Spider Johnson.
The transgression? Who knows? Perhaps it's Felton's pursuit of another job. Yes, he did interview for the Georgia State gig. And, for reasons that should escape us all, he applied for the Northern Kentucky job.
None of this matters, of course. Clearly Felton and his staff has taken the stance that anyone and everyone can be replaced, which might hearken back to Felton's days with the Spurs, where he looked at players at individuals he could mold.
A good philosophy, if he had Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker already on his roster.
The signing of Justin Hill is proof that Felton thinks he can develop whoever into a star, never mind that Hill, prior to his signing, was offered nothing and was planning to walk on to Cal State-Northridge.
As I said on Tom's board before he shut it down, Cleveland State's improvement next year would suffer from the comparison of the improvements of the rest of the conference. Wright State is the team to beat. UIC still has the best backcourt in the conference. Even with their losses, I don't think Northern Kentucky or Green Bay fall out of the top half of the league. And Youngstown State and Detroit Mercy, especially with Antoine Davis, can make some noise.
Now that four of the Vikings' five top scorers leaving, the only chance they have to stay out of the cellar is that IUPUI is hurt by the departure of Camron Justice more.
Scott Garrett's hands are tied. It would cost CSU north of $1 million for Felton's buyout; a final parting gift from Mike Thomas and he obvious laziness. And it's an albatross across the entire department's neck, at least in the near-term.
As my guest co-host Matt Dudek said, Felton, at this point, is a movie villain. And from this point until Felton's inevitable end, will be known as The Heist.
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Post by ede on Jul 9, 2019 23:31:43 GMT -5
Omfg it's worse than i thought.Felton has betrayed the team, the school, he was insentive to Williams which end up losing him the best player on the team. Shit Damn. What a mess Garrett has inherited.This is sad. If all this is true, this will be worse than the Garland/Boyd years. He recruited well, but deep down, he didn't want to be here. Smh. I think i may be done with Cleveland St. Awe Athletics Dept.
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Post by theonetheonly on Jul 10, 2019 8:32:44 GMT -5
Option 1 is he enrolled in the summer prior to his junior year and has been taking classes this summer. It’s possible he finished a degree this summer. It might have played a role in him delaying his announcement to ensure that he was graduating this summer. Option 2 he claims some sort of misconduct with the the coaching staff and the NCAA is going to be unlikely to block his transfer. Whether the allegations are true or not their is a reason that this noise is out there. This will be more dependent on where he ends up and if that school has the resources to get this pushed through. Since you are speculating: Option 3: he does not have enough credits to graduate from CSU this year and he sits out a year. either way I'm good. He chose a path and it's done. Time to speculate on this year's team. Option 3 is a possibility but I was told by someone who has connections that they believe it was part of the reason Hill waited so long was to try to get assurance he would be able to play next year. That might not happen. I was just pointing out the two ways he could play next year and also it would have provided an explanation for as to why now instead of months ago. Option 3 I assumed was already understood. Also there isn't much to speculate about this years team. It’s going to suck. It might be a little better in the conference standings because the league is so much worse but it’s going to be a bad team. The only speculation we really have is who is going to be the next coach and I think that is way to early to even get a feel on.
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Post by theonetheonly on Jul 10, 2019 8:59:48 GMT -5
So, I guess I should say something. The second I heard that Appleby and Jalaam Hill were transferring, on top of the Williams and Millner transfers, I considered this an extinction level event for Cleveland State. A week later, I feel no differently. For those of you who think that Jalaam Hill is still in school to finish his degree, the Instagram Story of his last day in Cleveland, complete with a scan of his entry into the transfer portal, tells a different story. He's sitting out a year, no doubt about it. Same thing with Appleby, and it looks like Texas A&M and Florida are the likely suitors. A reminder that not even a week prior to his departure, Appleby was tweeting he was striving for next year's NBA Draft. Clearly a lot can change in a short amount of time. While I can't speak to allegations of abuse by Felton, what I can say is the following: The only reason Rashad Williams is transferring is family-related. And Felton's reaction to it? Well, he flipped out, even knowing what was going on with Williams and his family. That clearly didn't sit well with some CSU players. But this kind of started before then, like when Cleveland State started the conference schedule 0-8. You know, in January, when clearly nobody was minding the store in Athletics, as evidenced by the swim team's shenanigans that led to the resignation of two associate ADs. However, in spite of it all, the team still planned to power through and work towards next season. And then some final, as-yet-unexplained transgression took place. And that was a bridge too far for Appleby and Hill. And probably Millner. And maybe others not named Kash Thomas or Spider Johnson. The transgression? Who knows? Perhaps it's Felton's pursuit of another job. Yes, he did interview for the Georgia State gig. And, for reasons that should escape us all, he applied for the Northern Kentucky job. None of this matters, of course. Clearly Felton and his staff has taken the stance that anyone and everyone can be replaced, which might hearken back to Felton's days with the Spurs, where he looked at players at individuals he could mold. A good philosophy, if he had Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker already on his roster. The signing of Justin Hill is proof that Felton thinks he can develop whoever into a star, never mind that Hill, prior to his signing, was offered nothing and was planning to walk on to Cal State-Northridge. As I said on Tom's board before he shut it down, Cleveland State's improvement next year would suffer from the comparison of the improvements of the rest of the conference. Wright State is the team to beat. UIC still has the best backcourt in the conference. Even with their losses, I don't think Northern Kentucky or Green Bay fall out of the top half of the league. And Youngstown State and Detroit Mercy, especially with Antoine Davis, can make some noise. Now that four of the Vikings' five top scorers leaving, the only chance they have to stay out of the cellar is that IUPUI is hurt by the departure of Camron Justice more. Scott Garrett's hands are tied. It would cost CSU north of $1 million for Felton's buyout; a final parting gift from Mike Thomas and he obvious laziness. And it's an albatross across the entire department's neck, at least in the near-term. As my guest co-host Matt Dudek said, Felton, at this point, is a movie villain. And from this point until Felton's inevitable end, will be known as The Heist. A few thing.... One I have heard this story about Felton flipping out twice now but haven’t been able to verify it with anyone that would be in the know. There are two more players considering transferring still. Don’t know if it will happen. I will not mention the players but obviously there is a lot for them to consider as the team will be a lot worse but more minutes may have opened up for them. The two assistant athletic directors were not the only resignations I was told there were others that played a support role in the athletic department. . I have heard that multiple other people have given strong consideration to resigning. Part of this was said to be due to their interactions with Felton. I heard these stories months before we knew players were leaving. So accusations of poor behavior on separate occasions with staff and players months apart is a lot of smoke for there not to be any fire. I do believe that the only reason Felton is still employed is due financial limitations. The question is going to be can he raise the funds to fire him after this season. If he can’t then we are two years away from his firing and 4-5 years before having any chance at relevancy.
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Post by ede on Jul 10, 2019 10:19:57 GMT -5
This is awful, i have no words. If all this is true, it's like he id deliberately sabotaging the program. Is this a ploy to get a buy out so he can get another job? If so(and I mean if,because there's two sides to the story) then what a total sleaze.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 10:57:26 GMT -5
Wow. What a mess. But sounds like nothing can be done unless there is money for a buy out. I also notice that operations guy left so this will be at least the 3rd one and maybe even the fourth.
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Post by gbanks on Jul 10, 2019 16:42:24 GMT -5
I not to surprised about the developments. New sheriff (AD) is in town and the house must be cleaned. The pressure is on and they are running for the hills. If Felton lands an another job next year, I'm sure CSU will waive any penalties.
The next coach should have only a 3 year deal. The new reality for mid majors like CSU, most players will only see CSU as a stepping stone. As I said before, CSU basketball recruiting should be restricted to a steady diet of JUCOs and transfers. Only deal with kids out of HS sparingly.
BTW, what does "flipping out" mean? Are we talking about "Drill Sargent" in your face or are we talking about Bobby Knight chair throwing temper circus?
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Post by theonetheonly on Jul 10, 2019 17:11:24 GMT -5
I not to surprised about the developments. New sheriff (AD) is in town and the house must be cleaned. The pressure is on and they are running for the hills. If Felton lands an another job next year, I'm sure CSU will waive any penalties. The next coach should have only a 3 year deal. The new reality for mid majors like CSU, most players will only see CSU as a stepping stone. As I said before, CSU basketball recruiting should be restricted to a steady diet of JUCOs and transfers. Only deal with kids out of HS sparingly. BTW, what does "flipping out" mean? Are we talking about "Drill Sargent" in your face or are we talking about Bobby Knight chair throwing temper circus? He isn’t getting a new job. He tried to apply to programs in which his name is well known in the state. Neither school had any interest. I don’t think he was interviewed at either position. There isn’t going to be a program that hires Felton if anyone wanted him they would have hired him anytime during the 8 years before we did. Our only hope of avoiding the buyout is an old friend gives him an assistant job in the NBA again. The contract is going to depend on how wanted the person is that we are going after. If a guy has other options you are getting him for 3 years. The issue with us is we gave 5 years to a guy no one wanted.
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Post by gbanks on Jul 10, 2019 18:39:12 GMT -5
I not to surprised about the developments. New sheriff (AD) is in town and the house must be cleaned. The pressure is on and they are running for the hills. If Felton lands an another job next year, I'm sure CSU will waive any penalties. The next coach should have only a 3 year deal. The new reality for mid majors like CSU, most players will only see CSU as a stepping stone. As I said before, CSU basketball recruiting should be restricted to a steady diet of JUCOs and transfers. Only deal with kids out of HS sparingly. BTW, what does "flipping out" mean? Are we talking about "Drill Sargent" in your face or are we talking about Bobby Knight chair throwing temper circus? He isn’t getting a new job. He tried to apply to programs in which his name is well known in the state. Neither school had any interest. I don’t think he was interviewed at either position. There isn’t going to be a program that hires Felton if anyone wanted him they would have hired him anytime during the 8 years before we did. Our only hope of avoiding the buyout is an old friend gives him an assistant job in the NBA again. The contract is going to depend on how wanted the person is that we are going after. If a guy has other options you are getting him for 3 years. The issue with us is we gave 5 years to a guy no one wanted. The typical excuse of 5 year contract is for recruitment purposes. You will be able to recruit if the prospect believed the coach will not last 4 years. Again, I don't think that matters any longer.
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Post by Bobby Mc on Jul 10, 2019 18:40:34 GMT -5
I not to surprised about the developments. New sheriff (AD) is in town and the house must be cleaned. The pressure is on and they are running for the hills. If Felton lands an another job next year, I'm sure CSU will waive any penalties. The next coach should have only a 3 year deal. The new reality for mid majors like CSU, most players will only see CSU as a stepping stone. As I said before, CSU basketball recruiting should be restricted to a steady diet of JUCOs and transfers. Only deal with kids out of HS sparingly. BTW, what does "flipping out" mean? Are we talking about "Drill Sargent" in your face or are we talking about Bobby Knight chair throwing temper circus? The reaction was dismissive at best. Jon, you may want to jump in with the coaching staff's reaction to one of your meltdowns, stating, while admitting Shad's personal situation, that CSU would be okay with or without him. With that being the response to a random fan, I understand the actual reaction from Felton was somewhere between drill sergeant and Bobby Knight. But again, the reaction to Shad's reaction wasn't what set Appleby and Hill (and probably Millner) over the edge.
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Post by theonetheonly on Jul 10, 2019 19:55:40 GMT -5
He isn’t getting a new job. He tried to apply to programs in which his name is well known in the state. Neither school had any interest. I don’t think he was interviewed at either position. There isn’t going to be a program that hires Felton if anyone wanted him they would have hired him anytime during the 8 years before we did. Our only hope of avoiding the buyout is an old friend gives him an assistant job in the NBA again. The contract is going to depend on how wanted the person is that we are going after. If a guy has other options you are getting him for 3 years. The issue with us is we gave 5 years to a guy no one wanted. The typical excuse of 5 year contract is for recruitment purposes. You will be able to recruit if the prospect believed the coach will not last 4 years. Again, I don't think that matters any longer. No coach though that is wanted by multiple programs is going to take a 3 year deal.
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Post by ede on Jul 11, 2019 8:26:36 GMT -5
Cleveland State has everything going against it. Mackey had this program on trac to being the next Xavier but after the scandal, it was derailed and never really recovered. Waters breathed some life into the program, but after the Forbes, Lewis, Grady Transfer is now back to the Boyd/Garland years level. With the new tranfer rule players can now bolt when ever they want. Schools with $ and P5 status can have their pick of the best players from the midmajors(the rich get richer,the poor get poorer) effectively turning schools like CSU into a junior college, ad a weak fan base and you have the perfect storm for failure. Smh. Basically this program never recovered from the Mackey scandal. It was essentially the death penalty for CSU.
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