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Post by ede on Apr 27, 2022 11:02:31 GMT -5
Thete looking at his track record which isn't good. Rob Summers had a resume of 3 losing years at a D2 school and a year as a DOBO on a terrible James Madison team. He turned out just fine… and people were lobbying for him to be the HC. An assistant is only as good as the HC and situation he’s placed in. Jermaine is highly, highly respected by a ton of people in the game. Because he proved himself learning under Gates and we're familiar with him.
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Post by ac on Apr 27, 2022 11:27:53 GMT -5
Yes he proved he could ride Gates coattails
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Post by vikesfan on Apr 27, 2022 11:30:34 GMT -5
Rob Summers had a resume of 3 losing years at a D2 school and a year as a DOBO on a terrible James Madison team. He turned out just fine… and people were lobbying for him to be the HC. An assistant is only as good as the HC and situation he’s placed in. Jermaine is highly, highly respected by a ton of people in the game. Because he proved himself learning under Gates and we're familiar with him. Yeah, so my point is that initially it looked like a bad hire under this criteria. However, it worked out quite well. How about we wait and see with this hire instead of writing everything off… We are Cleveland State, not a blue blood. It’s not like we’ll be getting top of the line proven assistants.
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Post by Admin on Apr 27, 2022 11:52:44 GMT -5
So people on here wanted us to keep Summers and Joyce from Gates’ staff, but then we keep another member of his staff and give him a promotion (as what happens with DOBO/DOVOs) and people are mad. We bring in an assistant from the Big 12 (who earned promotions from Bruce Weber), who has experience at Cleveland State, and has been around the game a long time… and people are mad. Tough crowd… I go by facts. Having 3 years' coaching experience or being from NE Ohio doesn't automatically make you good. Jermaine Henderson has been a coach for 25 years and have had two winning seasons. Let me repeat that. One quarter of a CENTURY coaching and TWO winning seasons. I guess I'm a terrible person for looking at the facts. Also making a video coordinator an assistant coach isn't inspiring much confidence, either. I remain very, very concerned about the future of this program.
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Post by vikesfan on Apr 27, 2022 12:15:17 GMT -5
So people on here wanted us to keep Summers and Joyce from Gates’ staff, but then we keep another member of his staff and give him a promotion (as what happens with DOBO/DOVOs) and people are mad. We bring in an assistant from the Big 12 (who earned promotions from Bruce Weber), who has experience at Cleveland State, and has been around the game a long time… and people are mad. Tough crowd… I go by facts. Having 3 years' coaching experience or being from NE Ohio doesn't automatically make you good. Jermaine Henderson has been a coach for 25 years and have had two winning seasons. Let me repeat that. One quarter of a CENTURY coaching and TWO winning seasons. I guess I'm a terrible person for looking at the facts. Also making a video coordinator an assistant coach isn't inspiring much confidence, either. I remain very, very concerned about the future of this program. So we are to pretend like the institutions Henderson has been at have been models of CBB aside from when he was there? Miami’s best days were when Henderson was there. They’ve done nothing since he left the program - after making several postseasons while he was there. Missouri State has never had a good basketball program. And at Kansas State, they made 2 NCAA tournaments while he was working for the program, and then got promoted within the program… But I guess Henderson is just terrible.
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Post by vikesfan on Apr 27, 2022 12:19:18 GMT -5
So people on here wanted us to keep Summers and Joyce from Gates’ staff, but then we keep another member of his staff and give him a promotion (as what happens with DOBO/DOVOs) and people are mad. We bring in an assistant from the Big 12 (who earned promotions from Bruce Weber), who has experience at Cleveland State, and has been around the game a long time… and people are mad. Tough crowd… I go by facts. Having 3 years' coaching experience or being from NE Ohio doesn't automatically make you good. Jermaine Henderson has been a coach for 25 years and have had two winning seasons. Let me repeat that. One quarter of a CENTURY coaching and TWO winning seasons. I guess I'm a terrible person for looking at the facts. Also making a video coordinator an assistant coach isn't inspiring much confidence, either. I remain very, very concerned about the future of this program. As for making a video coordinator an assistant, almost every coach starts off as a DOBO/DOVO/GA and gets promoted to an assistant…
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Post by frankiemeatballs on Apr 27, 2022 12:35:34 GMT -5
So people on here wanted us to keep Summers and Joyce from Gates’ staff, but then we keep another member of his staff and give him a promotion (as what happens with DOBO/DOVOs) and people are mad. We bring in an assistant from the Big 12 (who earned promotions from Bruce Weber), who has experience at Cleveland State, and has been around the game a long time… and people are mad. Tough crowd… I go by facts. Having 3 years' coaching experience or being from NE Ohio doesn't automatically make you good. Jermaine Henderson has been a coach for 25 years and have had two winning seasons. Let me repeat that. One quarter of a CENTURY coaching and TWO winning seasons. I guess I'm a terrible person for looking at the facts. Also making a video coordinator an assistant coach isn't inspiring much confidence, either. I remain very, very concerned about the future of this program. I’m the one who posted his career record, just to provide data to the conversation. I wasn’t leaning one way or the other. That said, your interpretation of the data is wrong. He had 8 winning seasons at Miami (OH) and made 2 NCAA appearances. He then had another winning season at Missouri State.
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Post by frankiemeatballs on Apr 27, 2022 12:40:13 GMT -5
I’ll say this about Henderson. Nobody was winning at CSU while he was here. That was post Forbes/Lewis/Grady and they had no talent on the roster in a better-than-now HL. He was only here 2 years so even if he brought in some big time recruits he wasn’t going to have a realistic shot at developing them. Missouri State and K-State were both in bad shape while he was there too (he improved Missouri State and K-State fell apart right as he was getting there in an admin role). Is he responsible for making/keeping those teams bad? Probably as much as he was responsible for the run he had at Miami (OH). It can’t be one or the other.
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Post by Admin on Apr 27, 2022 15:22:30 GMT -5
I’ll say this about Henderson. Nobody was winning at CSU while he was here. That was post Forbes/Lewis/Grady and they had no talent on the roster in a better-than-now HL. He was only here 2 years so even if he brought in some big time recruits he wasn’t going to have a realistic shot at developing them. Missouri State and K-State were both in bad shape while he was there too (he improved Missouri State and K-State fell apart right as he was getting there in an admin role). Is he responsible for making/keeping those teams bad? Probably as much as he was responsible for the run he had at Miami (OH). It can’t be one or the other. I'll agree to disagree on "no one was winning at CSU". Dennis Gates was hired in late July and by year two had turned the program around. the only player worth anything that was recruited the years Henderson was at CSU was Rob Edwards. Which coach got him to come to CSU, that I don't know. It just comes off to me as making excuses when you say oh the programs he went to were in bad shape. So why didn't Henderson improve the programs?
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Post by frankiemeatballs on Apr 27, 2022 16:25:55 GMT -5
I’ll say this about Henderson. Nobody was winning at CSU while he was here. That was post Forbes/Lewis/Grady and they had no talent on the roster in a better-than-now HL. He was only here 2 years so even if he brought in some big time recruits he wasn’t going to have a realistic shot at developing them. Missouri State and K-State were both in bad shape while he was there too (he improved Missouri State and K-State fell apart right as he was getting there in an admin role). Is he responsible for making/keeping those teams bad? Probably as much as he was responsible for the run he had at Miami (OH). It can’t be one or the other. I'll agree to disagree on "no one was winning at CSU". Dennis Gates was hired in late July and by year two had turned the program around. the only player worth anything that was recruited the years Henderson was at CSU was Rob Edwards. Which coach got him to come to CSU, that I don't know. It just comes off to me as making excuses when you say oh the programs he went to were in bad shape. So why didn't Henderson improve the programs? Good point on Gates. I’ll say the Horizon League is significantly worse than it was 5-7 years ago. It was all-time bad the past few years. Also, Gates was the head coach. I love Gary Waters but it was pretty clear the game had passed him by at that point. The transfers and the rules hurting his defense. That played into my “nobody was winning here” comment. By the way, Rob Edwards would have been the best player on all three of Gates’ teams. If Henderson contributed to bringing in guys like that at a losing program with only two years on the job, I’m excited to see what he can do this time around. And again, if Henderson gets discredited for not turning around bad programs, then he should be credited for contributing to a great 8-10 year run at Miami that included a sweet 16 appearance.
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Post by ede on Apr 27, 2022 17:20:56 GMT -5
I'll agree to disagree on "no one was winning at CSU". Dennis Gates was hired in late July and by year two had turned the program around. the only player worth anything that was recruited the years Henderson was at CSU was Rob Edwards. Which coach got him to come to CSU, that I don't know. It just comes off to me as making excuses when you say oh the programs he went to were in bad shape. So why didn't Henderson improve the programs? Good point on Gates. I’ll say the Horizon League is significantly worse than it was 5-7 years ago. It was all-time bad the past few years. Also, Gates was the head coach. I love Gary Waters but it was pretty clear the game had passed him by at that point. The transfers and the rules hurting his defense. That played into my “nobody was winning here” comment. By the way, Rob Edwards would have been the best player on all three of Gates’ teams. If Henderson contributed to bringing in guys like that at a losing program with only two years on the job, I’m excited to see what he can do this time around. And again, if Henderson gets discredited for not turning around bad programs, then he should be credited for contributing to a great 8-10 year run at Miami that included a sweet 16 appearance. Waters was one of the best recruiter of guards even better than Mackey. We had the best Guards here. Harman, Kid from Chicago(name escapes me) Edwards.Forbes. and Cole. Miss those years.
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Post by ac on Apr 27, 2022 18:08:25 GMT -5
Good point on Gates. I’ll say the Horizon League is significantly worse than it was 5-7 years ago. It was all-time bad the past few years. Also, Gates was the head coach. I love Gary Waters but it was pretty clear the game had passed him by at that point. The transfers and the rules hurting his defense. That played into my “nobody was winning here” comment. By the way, Rob Edwards would have been the best player on all three of Gates’ teams. If Henderson contributed to bringing in guys like that at a losing program with only two years on the job, I’m excited to see what he can do this time around. And again, if Henderson gets discredited for not turning around bad programs, then he should be credited for contributing to a great 8-10 year run at Miami that included a sweet 16 appearance. Waters was one of the best recruiter of guards even better than Mackey. We had the best Guards here. Harman, Kid from Chicago(name escapes me) Edwards.Forbes. and Cole. Miss those years.
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Post by ac on Apr 27, 2022 18:09:50 GMT -5
Jeremy Montgomery is who you're thinking of Ede
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Post by ede on Apr 27, 2022 20:06:29 GMT -5
Jeremy Montgomery is who you're thinking of Ede yes
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