|
Post by ede on Mar 10, 2022 16:27:09 GMT -5
He doesn’t owe the program anything. I don't agree with "He doesn't owe the program anything." That's like saying, "Get all you can out of someone or something and then the heck with them." I know, I get it, that's the way a lot of people think nowadays, but that comes across as shallow. Well said. What a weird thing for a so called Fan of the program to say. I hope Hodge has more scruples that that.
|
|
|
Post by gbanks on Mar 10, 2022 17:27:27 GMT -5
I think this team met expectations. I'm not sure winning the the BYU, Oklahoma State and Ohio games were in the cards (this year). That would have been a team that consistently played at a higher level and that team would have dominated the HL. This is not a knock on the program. The Vikes are moving in the right direction. They kept those games tight. The player / program dynamics in college sports is not a healthy one. However in life, having a mercenary attitude creates a ceiling for everyone involved. Some reasonable sense of loyalty is import in developing trust. Trust is very important in developing a team. I agree with this for the most part. It would have been nice to get one of those - especially the Oklahoma State game. I felt like that was the one that got away. CSU does need to get out of the Horizon League. It's been going downhill for a decade. How/when CSU gets out is the question. You would think someone would want the Cleveland market. It's not Chicago, but it's not Kalamazoo, either. The OSU game did get away. But it's part of that greater issue with the Vikes. Their contests end with very close scores and mistakes matter. All it takes is a few mistakes and a W becomes a L (or an L becomes a W from an opportunity perspective). Their point spread is seldom large enough to compensate for mishaps. This has been a characteristic of Gate's teams the last 2 seasons. Although the emphasis on D might be a contributor to this, I don't recall Water's teams behaving this way. BTW, this also hampered their Net Rating. Of course quality of the opponent did not help.
|
|
|
Post by ede on Mar 10, 2022 17:35:55 GMT -5
I agree with this for the most part. It would have been nice to get one of those - especially the Oklahoma State game. I felt like that was the one that got away. CSU does need to get out of the Horizon League. It's been going downhill for a decade. How/when CSU gets out is the question. You would think someone would want the Cleveland market. It's not Chicago, but it's not Kalamazoo, either. The OSU game did get away. But it's part of that greater issue with the Vikes. Their contests end with very close scores and mistakes matter. All it takes is a few mistakes and a W becomes a L (or an L becomes a W from an opportunity perspective). Their point spread is seldom large enough to compensate for mishaps. This has been a characteristic of Gate's teams the last 2 seasons. Although the emphasis on D might be a contributor to this, I don't recall Water's teams behaving this way. BTW, this also hampered their Net Rating. Of course quality of the opponent did not help. The product will improve with better recruiting. at times the Vikings were offensively challenged to say the least. We are having 3 guards and a wing coming. Gates is also looking for more size.
|
|
|
Post by theonetheonly on Mar 12, 2022 12:03:52 GMT -5
While I agree that Gonzaga and Wichita State have had massive boosters it didn’t start that way for either programs the boosters game when the program really started winning. They maintained the winning by keeping the coach with the boosters. Something that a lot of schools I.E Buffalo we’re not able to do.
Memphis and Cincy are poor comparisons because they have a football program that generates significant revenue. Also Memphis has the FedEx owner as its booster.
|
|
|
Post by ede on Mar 12, 2022 15:20:33 GMT -5
While I agree that Gonzaga and Wichita State have had massive boosters it didn’t start that way for either programs the boosters game when the program really started winning. They maintained the winning by keeping the coach with the boosters. Something that a lot of schools I.E Buffalo we’re not able to do. Memphis and Cincy are poor comparisons because they have a football program that generates significant revenue. Also Memphis has the FedEx owner as its booster. So basically we need someone with deep pockets. Closest would be the Wolesteins. We need a local Clevelander most likely Lebron or Gilbert. Garrett I feel is the man for the job. He's raised a lot of $$$ for the school on giving day. If he can convince a billionaire with ties to Cleveland to back the program. He did a good job at K State.
|
|
|
Post by gbanks on Mar 12, 2022 17:19:22 GMT -5
While I agree that Gonzaga and Wichita State have had massive boosters it didn’t start that way for either programs the boosters game when the program really started winning. They maintained the winning by keeping the coach with the boosters. Something that a lot of schools I.E Buffalo we’re not able to do. Memphis and Cincy are poor comparisons because they have a football program that generates significant revenue. Also Memphis has the FedEx owner as its booster. I only picked Memphis b/c Cleveland has many advantages over Memphis; such as market size and relative wealth. Memphis had to overcome a great deal of obstacles to grow their program(s). More importantly their urban profile and enrollment is not to different from CSU. Agreed they have football and sponsors. But those did not come overnight (kind of a positive feedback loop as you describe with your examples above). UC is a completely different animal. It's older than Ohio State, had an influx of private money early in it's development, grew as the US, Ohio, and Cincinnati grew in population. Buffalo is another older that dirt institution with an enrolment between the sizes of Memphis and UC. Ironically it did not become a state school until 1962. For public universities, enrollment size and duration equates to more alum. Hence greater opportunity for # of alum donors and the probability that some will be wealthy. Most of the money currently from CSU alum has targeted funding for education (always been a higher priority to me). This is just a long way to say, it is doubtful that the alum base send the basketball program millions of $s. This is where I like the Gonzaga analogy. The Vikes will be in the HL for a long time. If we win the HLT 5 times in the next 6 years, we are too far east for the MVC and still not good enough for the A10. The Vikes must demonstrate dominance in high profile OOC games, drive deep into the NCAAs, and routinely win the HL / HLT.
|
|
|
Post by ede on Mar 12, 2022 19:38:45 GMT -5
Cincy and Memphis are the perfect comparison, remember their Basketball programs took off long before their D1 football programs did. Hell back in the 90s I didnt even know Cincinnati had a football team. That's when Cincinnati basketball reemerged at a national power. Under Huggins same with Memphis.
|
|
|
Post by ede on Mar 12, 2022 19:45:44 GMT -5
While I agree that Gonzaga and Wichita State have had massive boosters it didn’t start that way for either programs the boosters game when the program really started winning. They maintained the winning by keeping the coach with the boosters. Something that a lot of schools I.E Buffalo we’re not able to do. Memphis and Cincy are poor comparisons because they have a football program that generates significant revenue. Also Memphis has the FedEx owner as its booster. I only picked Memphis b/c Cleveland has many advantages over Memphis; such as market size and relative wealth. Memphis had to overcome a great deal of obstacles to grow their program(s). More importantly their urban profile and enrollment is not to different from CSU. Agreed they have football and sponsors. But those did not come overnight (kind of a positive feedback loop as you describe with your examples above). UC is a completely different animal. It's older than Ohio State, had an influx of private money early in it's development, grew as the US, Ohio, and Cincinnati grew in population. Buffalo is another older that dirt institution with an enrolment between the sizes of Memphis and UC. Ironically it did not become a state school until 1962. For public universities, enrollment size and duration equates to more alum. Hence greater opportunity for # of alum donors and the probability that some will be wealthy. Most of the money currently from CSU alum has targeted funding for education (always been a higher priority to me). This is just a long way to say, it is doubtful that the alum base send the basketball program millions of $s. This is where I like the Gonzaga analogy. The Vikes will be in the HL for a long time. If we win the HLT 5 times in the next 6 years, we are too far east for the MVC and still not good enough for the A10. The Vikes must demonstrate dominance in high profile OOC games, drive deep into the NCAAs, and routinely win the HL / HLT. if we can keep Gates for few more years. (BIG IF) keep that Florida/Georgia recruiting pipeline going I see CSU pulling it off. The key is funding raising. Garrett has good connections. But ur right the vike get good OOC wins. Starting with this upcoming N.I.T.
|
|
|
Post by gbanks on Mar 14, 2022 16:58:56 GMT -5
The HL in the post season: NCAA: Bryant vs WS in the 16 seed play in NIT: Vikes (7) vs Cincinnati (2) CIT: PFW CBI: Det, UIC, and YSU
N. Kentucky said NO to everything
|
|
|
Post by ede on Mar 14, 2022 18:24:30 GMT -5
The HL in the post season: NCAA: Bryant vs WS in the 16 seed play in NIT: Vikes (7) vs Cincinnati (2) CIT: PFW CBI: Det, UIC, and YSU N. Kentucky said NO to everything North Kentucky staying by their convictions it seems. It's NCAA or Bust as far as their concerned. Losing championship game must have put a bad taste in their mouths.
|
|
|
Post by ac on Mar 14, 2022 18:50:04 GMT -5
No Oakland in any post season tourneys?
|
|
|
Post by ede on Mar 14, 2022 20:12:09 GMT -5
North Kentucky staying by their convictions it seems. It's NCAA or Bust as far as their concerned. Losing championship game must have put a bad taste in their mouths. It has nothing to do about their convictions. They didn't want to pay to play in the CIT or CBI. They had no shot at the NCAA or NIT with their NET. ok yea forgot the other two were pay to play
|
|