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Post by gbanks on Jan 8, 2022 22:28:30 GMT -5
- The ASUN is currently rated higher than the HL and I would argue there is no travel saving for Bellarmine by moving to the HL. I see Bellamine as a not likely interested in joining the HL at this time. I think they are going to have a wait and see approach.
No travel savings? Dude, look at a map. Bellarmine to Florida Gulf Coast is 1010 miles. Bellarmine to Green Bay is 511 miles. About the same distance to Green Bay (510 miles).
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Post by gbanks on Jan 9, 2022 17:10:14 GMT -5
About the same distance to Green Bay (510 miles). Did you read the post before you responded. Bellarmine's longest trip in the ASUN (FGCU) is twice as far as it would be in the HL (GB). LOL, yep I mis read it. Since the ASUN is 2 Divisions, - they play 2 games in the West vs 1 game in the east. Only a trip to Ft Myers every other year. That dramatically cuts down on distance.
- Although their longest trip is Central Arkansas (580 miles), most of their travel is only a few hours away
- Logging is typically the largest expense in the travel budget. Now you are comparing logging in small cities vs larger cities (which typically cost more)
. .
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Post by gbanks on Jan 9, 2022 17:19:48 GMT -5
Glad to hear that. Can I assume that Wright st is back to the required # of sports for the DI designation?
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Post by theonetheonly on Jan 10, 2022 23:28:27 GMT -5
LOL, yep I mis read it. Since the ASUN is 2 Divisions, - they play 2 games in the West vs 1 game in the east. Only a trip to Ft Myers every other year. That dramatically cuts down on distance.
- Although their longest trip is Central Arkansas (580 miles), most of their travel is only a few hours away
- Logging is typically the largest expense in the travel budget. Now you are comparing logging in small cities vs larger cities (which typically cost more)
. . The ASUN has been adding teams to break into 2 separate leagues in the future: a basketball focused conference and a football focused one. If that ends up coming to pass, they will have to make that trip every year if they remain in the ASUN since both of them will be in the basketball conference. The basketball isn’t going to be divided like that. They will still be in the same conference for basketball
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Post by theonetheonly on Jan 11, 2022 9:04:25 GMT -5
I have a connection to that conference and what I was told is they were planning on working the scheduling out to help with the travel. I will check back in because that differs from what I was told before.
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Post by gbanks on Jan 11, 2022 11:55:42 GMT -5
Glad to hear that. Can I assume that Wright st is back to the required # of sports for the DI designation? We will be adding sports back for next year. They have not announced which sports we will be adding yet. Would love to get enough teams to bring LAX into the HL.
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Post by azvike83 on Jan 11, 2022 13:11:41 GMT -5
If WSU adds LAX as one of the programs, it adds to Bellarmine's chances in my opinion.
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Post by gbanks on Jan 11, 2022 14:10:21 GMT -5
If WSU adds LAX as one of the programs, it adds to Bellarmine's chances in my opinion. I did have that in mind when I made that statement. But still like Morehead primarily from a basketball perspective. I can live with either one. But I just think that Morehead may be harder to obtain or their program suffers as the OVC is further downgraded. When Butler left the HL, I noticed that our recruiting took a step backwards.
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Post by azvike83 on Jan 11, 2022 14:13:12 GMT -5
I would take both ...(and dump IUPIU)...LOL
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Post by stanley on Jan 11, 2022 22:44:48 GMT -5
I would take both ...(and dump IUPIU)...LOL Or, regardless of what happens, just dump IUPUI. And stop playing your league's tournament in that ugly arena that draws less than 1,000 fans for the championship.
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Post by user1 on Jan 11, 2022 23:48:04 GMT -5
I would take both ...(and dump IUPIU)...LOL Or, regardless of what happens, just dump IUPUI. And stop playing your league's tournament in that ugly arena that draws less than 1,000 fans for the championship. League in discussing on extending contract with that arena.
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Post by ede on Jan 12, 2022 0:09:05 GMT -5
Or, regardless of what happens, just dump IUPUI. And stop playing your league's tournament in that ugly arena that draws less than 1,000 fans for the championship. League in discussing on extending contract with that arena. I live near indy they arena is god awful. Local politics have a lot to do with that. BB&T the Nutter,Wolestein are much better venues
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Post by ede on Jan 12, 2022 0:10:50 GMT -5
There is a definite Indianapolis bias. Because league HQ is there.
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Post by gbanks on Jan 12, 2022 8:43:16 GMT -5
With UIC leaving, the center of the HL is moving further east. Perhaps its time to move the league HQ.
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Post by frankiemeatballs on Jan 12, 2022 12:50:29 GMT -5
I’m not a fan of the arena being used for the championship game either, but I will say that it makes sense for the tournament to be in Indianapolis. It’s relatively central with all teams being within a 5 hour drive, the exceptions being RMU (5:45) and GB (6:45), and 5 of 12 teams are within a 3 hour drive.
We’ve tried the “top seed host the tournament” structure and it failed anytime the top seed didn’t advance to the finals. It also costs money for the HL staff that are putting on the tournament to travel and stay in whichever city is hosting the event. That’s fine if you sell out the Nutter Center because WSU is playing in the championship game, but not as good when teams like Milwaukee and Oakland play in front of an empty gym on some other school’s campus.
We also tried the “Motor City Madness” in another somewhat centrally located major city’s second rate arena and the attendance was abysmal. Again, that’s a big loss for the HL to lodge their staff in Detroit for a week. And frankly, if I had to choose where to spend a week in the Midwest in early spring, I’d choose Indianapolis over Detroit every time.
All of that said, I agree with Big D that UD Arena should have been the answer. It’s centrally located and UD fans will fill an arena for an intramural game. That base of attendance would have been enough to make the costs of lodging worth it. But outside of that, Indianapolis makes the most sense.
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Post by gbanks on Jan 12, 2022 13:12:55 GMT -5
I’m not a fan of the arena being used for the championship game either, but I will say that it makes sense for the tournament to be in Indianapolis. It’s relatively central with all teams being within a 5 hour drive, the exceptions being RMU (5:45) and GB (6:45), and 5 of 12 teams are within a 3 hour drive. We’ve tried the “top seed host the tournament” structure and it failed anytime the top seed didn’t advance to the finals. It also costs money for the HL staff that are putting on the tournament to travel and stay in whichever city is hosting the event. That’s fine if you sell out the Nutter Center because WSU is playing in the championship game, but not as good when teams like Milwaukee and Oakland play in front of an empty gym on some other school’s campus. We also tried the “Motor City Madness” in another somewhat centrally located major city’s second rate arena and the attendance was abysmal. Again, that’s a big loss for the HL to lodge their staff in Detroit for a week. And frankly, if I had to choose where to spend a week in the Midwest in early spring, I’d choose Indianapolis over Detroit every time. All of that said, I agree with Big D that UD Arena should have been the answer. It’s centrally located and UD fans will fill an arena for an intramural game. That base of attendance would have been enough to make the costs of lodging worth it. But outside of that, Indianapolis makes the most sense. UD? --> Detroit? Dayton? BigD's university? ??
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Post by ede on Jan 12, 2022 13:32:49 GMT -5
I’m not a fan of the arena being used for the championship game either, but I will say that it makes sense for the tournament to be in Indianapolis. It’s relatively central with all teams being within a 5 hour drive, the exceptions being RMU (5:45) and GB (6:45), and 5 of 12 teams are within a 3 hour drive. We’ve tried the “top seed host the tournament” structure and it failed anytime the top seed didn’t advance to the finals. It also costs money for the HL staff that are putting on the tournament to travel and stay in whichever city is hosting the event. That’s fine if you sell out the Nutter Center because WSU is playing in the championship game, but not as good when teams like Milwaukee and Oakland play in front of an empty gym on some other school’s campus. We also tried the “Motor City Madness” in another somewhat centrally located major city’s second rate arena and the attendance was abysmal. Again, that’s a big loss for the HL to lodge their staff in Detroit for a week. And frankly, if I had to choose where to spend a week in the Midwest in early spring, I’d choose Indianapolis over Detroit every time. All of that said, I agree with Big D that UD Arena should have been the answer. It’s centrally located and UD fans will fill an arena for an intramural game. That base of attendance would have been enough to make the costs of lodging worth it. But outside of that, Indianapolis makes the most sense. UD? --> Detroit? Dayton? BigD's university? ?? UD arena is practically a home game for Wright State. A more neutral venue would be better
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Post by gbanks on Jan 12, 2022 14:00:27 GMT -5
UD? --> Detroit? Dayton? BigD's university? ?? UD arena is practically a home game for Wright State. A more neutral venue would be better Based on your response. I'm guessing UD is the University of Dayton. That's kind of like the MAC playing their tournament at the CSU's Wolstein Center rather than Gund, Q, .. Rocket Arena. I don't see either happening.
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Post by stanley on Jan 12, 2022 14:13:12 GMT -5
Or, regardless of what happens, just dump IUPUI. And stop playing your league's tournament in that ugly arena that draws less than 1,000 fans for the championship. League in discussing on extending contract with that arena. And another reason for Cleveland State to exit the HL asap.
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Post by frankiemeatballs on Jan 12, 2022 14:21:01 GMT -5
Yes UD = Dayton. It’s practically a home game for WSU just like it is now for IUPUI. According to Big D, Dayton’s proposal included selling the HL tournament to their season ticket holders and they were guaranteeing a minimum of 5,000 people per game. If that’s true, the HL will never beat that - anywhere. Also, UD Arena is in the constant rotation for NCAA tourney games as well as hosting all of the first four games. They know how to run a basketball tournament.
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Post by stanley on Jan 12, 2022 14:21:40 GMT -5
The tournament has to get out of that arena, plain and simple. It's an embarrassment on numerous levels.
The solution is to go back to letting the top seed host, or go to a rotating city format where you hit the different areas of the league. If you want to truly keep it out of cities that have an HL team (not my preference, but) then Columbus is the obvious place with two nice arenas. If you want to keep it in HL cities, then Chicago, Indianapolis (NOT in that arena it's currently in), Cincinnati, Milwaukee and Cleveland should be the rotation. In all of those, you could have it in current HL arenas. If you work out a deal with 3 instead of 5, so be it.
I'm not as big of a fan of Indianapolis as some. It's an ok city, but I think just about every other similar-sized city (except Detroit) in the HL is as good or better.
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Post by stanley on Jan 12, 2022 14:22:46 GMT -5
Yes UD = Dayton. It’s practically a home game for WSU just like it is now for IUPUI. According to Big D, Dayton’s proposal included selling the HL tournament to their season ticket holders and they were guaranteeing a minimum of 5,000 people per game. If that’s true, the HL will never beat that - anywhere. Also, UD Arena is in the constant rotation for NCAA tourney games as well as hosting all of the first four games. They know how to run a basketball tournament. I'd take this deal for now, too. Dayton isn't a great city, but UD does know how to host a tournament.
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Post by gbanks on Jan 12, 2022 16:39:19 GMT -5
Yes UD = Dayton. It’s practically a home game for WSU just like it is now for IUPUI. According to Big D, Dayton’s proposal included selling the HL tournament to their season ticket holders and they were guaranteeing a minimum of 5,000 people per game. If that’s true, the HL will never beat that - anywhere. Also, UD Arena is in the constant rotation for NCAA tourney games as well as hosting all of the first four games. They know how to run a basketball tournament. I'd take this deal for now, too. Dayton isn't a great city, but UD does know how to host a tournament. Sounds like this would be "filler" tickets for the Flyers season ticket holders they would have to purchase. I wonder how many would actually show up to the HLT games? I'm guessing that on the plus side, regardless of the # of Flyer fans show up, it's that many more fans than would otherwise show up.
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Post by stanley on Jan 12, 2022 16:48:09 GMT -5
I'd take this deal for now, too. Dayton isn't a great city, but UD does know how to host a tournament. Sounds like this would be "filler" tickets for the Flyers season ticket holders they would have to purchase. I wonder how many would actually show up to the HLT games? I'm guessing that on the plus side, regardless of the # of Flyer fans show up, it's that many more fans than would otherwise show up. Exactly. A lot of tickets probably would be included in Flyer season ticket packages, but my guess is people would show up, and at the very least, UD would support getting people to the tournament, unlike IUPUI, which has done absolutely nothing to get people to the games. They can't even get 200 people to their own home games.
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Post by stanley on Jan 13, 2022 23:20:52 GMT -5
Exactly. A lot of tickets probably would be included in Flyer season ticket packages, but my guess is people would show up, and at the very least, UD would support getting people to the tournament, unlike IUPUI, which has done absolutely nothing to get people to the games. They can't even get 200 people to their own home games. UD would not include it as part of their season ticket packages. They give season ticket holder priority purchases for extra games they host including first four games, women's NCAA, and Men's NCAA tournament. If season ticket holders purchase first four or in this case HL tournament games, they get higher priority for the regular NCAA tournament games. They wouldn't be tickets purchased by season ticket holders and not used either. Dayton, if you like us or not, is a basketball crazy city. The people in the area show up for all basketball events. Flyin to the hoops high school basketball tournament that will be held this weekend usually draws 4-5K fans for most games. Regular high school games are played in the Nutter Center and UD arena and can get 3-4K for a single game. UD gets 10-12k for first four games every year and they were getting that when the first 4 games were only the teams fighting it out for the 16 seed in the past. I have no doubt UD arena would get 8-12K for the HL tournament especially in a year where NKU, WSU, CSU, or YSU look half way decent. People here love basketball. It would give WSU an advantage but honestly it's no different that the advantage we gave Detroit/Oakland the last several years in Motor City Madness. Agreed. Regardless of how you look at it, UD is an upgrade over the situation we have now. Better arena, better atmosphere. The Farmers Coliseum is such a bad venue with no one attending .. it's just an embarrassment to the league. And the fact the league office doesn't care and wants to keep it there is just awful.
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Post by gbanks on Jan 22, 2022 11:13:32 GMT -5
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Post by ede on Jan 22, 2022 12:29:01 GMT -5
For some reason this doesn't bother me. Come on Southern Indiana. Or Moorehead State. Even Kansas City, if they don't get an invitation
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Post by ede on Jan 22, 2022 12:33:27 GMT -5
Ummm I think North Kentucky and eventually Wright State will be next if the MVC adds more teams again. Let's see how LeCrones replacement responses to this.
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Post by gbanks on Jan 22, 2022 15:19:43 GMT -5
Honestly, I think the HL would have to try to sabotage itself in order for this to not end up as an upgrade for the conference. MVC fans are delusional if they think adding UIC is going to be a good move. Loyola's ascent in the MVC was a "all the stars lining up" scenario that worked out perfectly for them. There is a better chance I hit the lotto tomorrow than that happening again with UIC. All the MVC did was remove one of the anchors to our conference and I thank them for it. We are a better conference next year if we do nothing and stick with 11 conference members just by eliminating them. Bellarmine is still in their transition to D1 and they are already a higher ranked NET team than UIC (212 vs 274) so adding them would be an upgrade. I'm not a fan of adding Morehead State because I have concerns about their long term finances but they would be an immediate upgrade to UIC too (103 to 274). I have concerns about Southern Indiana's finances too but I'll take their potential vs the shitshow UIC has been for the last 20 years any day of the week. The only way the HL doesn't come out better from losing UIC is if we do something completely asinine like add Chicago State and that would be self sabotage. The sabotage has already occurred with IUPUI and their NetRating of 358 out of 358. That move alone has enabled the Summit to rise higher than the HL in relative rankings. The only way the HL resolves UIPUI issue is to pay them to leave. If that continues over the next few years, the next best option is to dissolve the HL.
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Post by ede on Jan 22, 2022 16:25:28 GMT -5
Honestly, I think the HL would have to try to sabotage itself in order for this to not end up as an upgrade for the conference. MVC fans are delusional if they think adding UIC is going to be a good move. Loyola's ascent in the MVC was a "all the stars lining up" scenario that worked out perfectly for them. There is a better chance I hit the lotto tomorrow than that happening again with UIC. All the MVC did was remove one of the anchors to our conference and I thank them for it. We are a better conference next year if we do nothing and stick with 11 conference members just by eliminating them. Bellarmine is still in their transition to D1 and they are already a higher ranked NET team than UIC (212 vs 274) so adding them would be an upgrade. I'm not a fan of adding Morehead State because I have concerns about their long term finances but they would be an immediate upgrade to UIC too (103 to 274). I have concerns about Southern Indiana's finances too but I'll take their potential vs the shitshow UIC has been for the last 20 years any day of the week. The only way the HL doesn't come out better from losing UIC is if we do something completely asinine like add Chicago State and that would be self sabotage. The sabotage has already occurred with IUPUI and their NetRating of 358 out of 358. That move alone has enabled the Summit to rise higher than the HL in relative rankings. The only way the HL resolves UIPUI issue is to pay them to leave. If that continues over the next few years, the next best option is to dissolve the HL. dissolve and comeback as a new conference under a different name.
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