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Post by stanley on Feb 1, 2022 15:50:04 GMT -5
I saw this on the HL Fan Board posted by a Valpo guy (the video is not done by him). In the 2nd half of the video is a presentation of HL candidates. I would bypass the 1st half about UIC getting the boot from the HL b/c they are a really bad team (did I say that out loud, my bad, could not help that). HL Candidate / Bye Bye UIC
I agree, this is a pretty good analysis. Some time was spent on this. Thanks for posting the link. I also agree that, of these candidates, Bellarmine is the only one that makes any sense. That all being said, I still dislike the fact the CSU has found themselves in a conference that only looks to add bottom-of-the-barrel D1's or transitioning D1's. |
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Post by ede on Feb 1, 2022 20:15:18 GMT -5
I saw this on the HL Fan Board posted by a Valpo guy (the video is not done by him). In the 2nd half of the video is a presentation of HL candidates. I would bypass the 1st half about UIC getting the boot from the HL b/c they are a really bad team (did I say that out loud, my bad, could not help that). HL Candidate / Bye Bye UIC
I agree, this is a pretty good analysis. Some time was spent on this. Thanks for posting the link. I also agree that, of these candidates, Bellarmine is the only one that makes any sense. That all being said, I still dislike the fact the CSU has found themselves in a conference that only looks to add bottom-of-the-barrel D1's or transitioning D1's. Thank LeCrone and poor leadership of others at the top. |
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Post by gbanks on Feb 7, 2022 16:31:12 GMT -5
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Post by ede on Feb 7, 2022 16:39:43 GMT -5
This is the type of program we need in the HL fuk the footprint. Why limit ourselves Moorehead,Bellermine and Southern Indiana, get it done HL. |
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Post by gbanks on Feb 7, 2022 16:58:51 GMT -5
This is the type of program we need in the HL fuk the footprint. Why limit ourselves Moorehead,Bellermine and Southern Indiana, get it done HL. Just remove IUPUI from the conference (mulligan) and bring in both Morehead and Bellarmine. BTW, Morehead is in the footprint (as much as Bellarmine). They can be both be travel partners (both are on I64). |
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Post by ede on Feb 7, 2022 17:02:37 GMT -5
This is the type of program we need in the HL fuk the footprint. Why limit ourselves Moorehead,Bellermine and Southern Indiana, get it done HL. Just remove IUPUI from the conference (mulligan) and bring in both Morehead and Bellarmine. BTW, Morehead is in the footprint (as much as Bellarmine). They can be both be travel partners (both are on I64). oh ok I heard a few ppl say Moorehead wasn't either way the HL needs to make a move. |
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Post by ede on Feb 7, 2022 19:59:19 GMT -5
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Post by ede on Feb 7, 2022 20:12:02 GMT -5
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Post by ede on Feb 7, 2022 20:44:48 GMT -5
Why are you posting a year old article about a team that is not being considered for membership? informational purpose. Promoting discussion.about the conference future. |
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Post by ede on Feb 7, 2022 21:14:54 GMT -5
O
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Post by ede on Feb 7, 2022 21:16:20 GMT -5
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Post by gbanks on Feb 7, 2022 22:16:40 GMT -5
I saw this on the HL Fan Board posted by a Valpo guy (the video is not done by him). In the 2nd half of the video is a presentation of HL candidates. I would bypass the 1st half about UIC getting the boot from the HL b/c they are a really bad team (did I say that out loud, my bad, could not help that). HL Candidate / Bye Bye UIC
You should re-watch the video that you posted. It gives some pretty good reasoning for why Morehead St shouldn't be the choice to replace UIC, specifically their finances. The lowest overall athletic budget in the HL is Green Bay at 9.4 million. Morehead State is even less at 8.1 million (and they have a football team). They also have a significantly smaller basketball budget than anyone else in the HL. YSU has the lowest basketball budget in the HL at 1.7 million. Morehead State is 1.15 million. They are doing well right now with their current coach and team, but what happens when he moves on? I think Valpo is figuring out now in the MVC what happens when you have a good coach (that is used to doing more with less) leaves and you are stuck trying to compete in a conference where you spend significantly less. It's hard to strike lightning in a bottle over and over again. You have to have finances in place in order to be competitive consistently. BigD, I don't mind posting information to share with the rest of the board. It does not mean I endorse his conclusions. You said the same thing about PFW. They happen to be the best of the 2 programs the HL has brought in the last 3 years (not counting IUPUI, they are in a league of their own and we should kick them out so that they literally are). The HL has had teams that spent money and failed and failed and failed (see UIC). You talk a lot about getting good programs (not shitty programs). Morehead is currently significantly more successful than any HL team (and plays against better competition). What Valpo is figuring out is what it's like to have coach not named Drew. They would have had the same problem in the HL. Money is great if you know how to leverage it. But if money is your biggest concern, we ask them divert the football funds to basketball. sure it Pioneer League football; but there are costs there that could help their MBB program. If still not enough, we ask them to raise there Athletic budget more as part of the deal. Let them back out if they can't afford it. But those would be the conditions. Note: all mid majors face loosing a good coach and falling into the abyss. Bellarmine will start mediocre in a bad HL conference and won't stop the bleeding. Yes, an upgrade over UIC; but, you are not aiming very high. The way Morehead has been playing over the last couple years, they will start at the top of the conference (or near the top). What you are basically saying is we can't afford to have teams that fall down and can't get up. No HL program is immune to that condition. The difference in our positions is I'm looking at the reality of a good program vs the potential of a mediocre program and the school's financial ability to keep dumping bad coaches until the find a good coach (UIC never did). |
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Post by gbanks on Feb 8, 2022 10:14:36 GMT -5
We are going to find out in the next week or 2 what way the HL is going to go. Bellarmine is the team we want. Southern Indiana is going to announce in the next couple of weeks what conference they play to join. If they announce the are joining the HL then we know that Bellarmine turned us down and we went with our second choice, Southern Indiana. If they announce they are joining the OVC, then expect Bellarmine to announce a move to the HL this spring or summer. You can say what you want about Morehead State as much as Ede can talk about teams like Chicago State. It's just fan board talk. It's not what's going to happen. Morehead State was approached a couple of years ago to gauge their interest in the HL and vice versa. They were told they needed to increase their total athletic department budget and men's basketball budget back then if they wanted to be considered. They said they could not do that back then and since that time they have cut their overall athletic department and basketball spending. I cannot imagine they are going to be considered when they are trending down in spending after they were told they needed to increase spending. You can say what you want about finances, but you don't pick a team based on a 2-3 year run of success or failure. You look at their long-term trends as a program and their finances. Murray State, for example, should have been a no brainer for any conference to want because they have been very successful over multiple decades with multiple coaches. They have really good fan support and financially support their program. They are everything you want in a program. We are not in a position as a conference where we can attract a program like Murray State, so we need to go for the school/schools with the most long-term potential. Bellarmine and Southern Indiana have had success at the D2 level and both are financially committed to their athletic departments. Neither adds instant success to the HL like Morehead State might but their potential to be successful in the long term is much higher than Morehead State because of their leadership and financial commitment. If Morehead State would come out and say they are committed to spending 12 million a year on athletics like Southern Indiana just did in their announcement that they are going D1, I think the HL would be all in to add them, but they won't make the commitment. Yes, this is a fan board and no influence on the outcome of any HL decision. Also, I accept your acknowledgement that I can say what I think about the situation, unless I get kicked off the board.  I never mentioned Chi state, the D2 college in Michigan that looks like a potential UIC or MKE, or Southern Indiana. I think they all would be really bad choices and could have the same negative impact as IUPUI. If finances are the key to success, then we should have taken up Grand Canyon a few years ago. But, another hypothetical with it's own warts. No use bringing up Murray or Belmont. That boat sailed years ago. In a few years, there is a higher probability to add Morehead to that list of good programs that we did not act on than any of the schools you mentioned. They are all unproven (in DI) or mediocre. They just don't scream good investments to me. |
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Post by stanley on Feb 8, 2022 14:57:21 GMT -5
The ONLY program that makes remote sense to add to the HL is Bellarmine. I think the video did a good job of laying out the argument for it. One of the biggest factors - it's in a large metro setting. That is the one positive characteristic that sets the HL apart from all of these other mid-major conferences that have most (if not all) of their member schools in rural/small market settings. If you add Southern Indiana or some school like that, you take another step away from one of your stated missions as a conference.
IUPUI needs to be removed from the HL. After posting an ad for open tryouts in February, there is no other option. Division 1 programs don't do that. Heck, Division 2 and 3 programs don't do that. To put it politely, it's an embarrassment to the conference. That just cannot happen, and sadly, it's par for the course with them. IUPUI has not only added nothing since they've joined, they have hurt the Horizon League's reputation. Some of it is self-inflicted - like putting the HLT there. What a farce.
The HL has never been further away from being a multi-bid conference and the debacle that is IUPUI is a big reason why it has fallen so far.
Also - I wanted to mention that I enjoy the spirited, yet polite discussion on this message board about CSU and the HL. I think it sets this forum apart from many. Most can't have civil discussions about any topic. Kudos to the community here.
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Post by ede on Feb 8, 2022 16:23:05 GMT -5
I like Bellermine for their potential. I like Southern Indy for the same reason. I like Moorehead because they have fielded a moderately successful program given their budget. I think we should take all 3. Moorehead helps off set IUPUI. Wow what a debacle that program is. Even Chicago State hasn't fallen so low. I never thought there'd be a program that actually makes Chicago State look good. Byron Rimm(the worst coach in D1) left Crenshaw with a mess to clean up.
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Post by ede on Feb 8, 2022 21:18:39 GMT -5
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Post by gbanks on Feb 9, 2022 15:34:05 GMT -5
As expected, Southern Indiana is headed to the OVC (not the HL).
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Post by ede on Feb 9, 2022 18:15:29 GMT -5
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Post by ede on Feb 9, 2022 21:34:12 GMT -5
We do have poor leadership but this is the right move by the HL. Why should the HL go through USI's growing pains while they transition to D1? We can add them whenever we want. They want in the HL. They sure in the hell don't want to stay in the OVC long term. That conference is a dumpster fire that is going to make the HL look good. We invited NKU after they were most of the way through their transition to D1. We are most likely going to invite Bellarmine after they are most of the way through their transition to D1. I expect USI will be invited to join the HL in 2 years after they are most of the way through their transition to D1 too. good point about the OVC they could end up folding if they can't stop the bleeding |
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Post by ede on Feb 12, 2022 17:30:52 GMT -5
Morehead is going toe to toe with # 23 ranked Murray state. They make the HL a better conference period.
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Post by ede on Mar 5, 2022 22:22:25 GMT -5
Morehead is going toe to toe with Murry State at the moment. We need this team in the HL.
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Post by azvike83 on Mar 16, 2022 15:24:07 GMT -5
Any new rumors/info here?
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Post by gbanks on Mar 16, 2022 22:30:51 GMT -5
Any new rumors/info here? My guess it there won't be much noise until the tournaments are over. I'm sure it will be utterly fantastic news. After all everyone is screaming for Bellarmine with a net rating of 194. They fit our profile of urban schools with a mediocre Net Rating. Who wants a program with at Net Rating of 112 that is apparently so poor it's a miracle they can field a team. They were even compared to our own outcast; PFW, who finished a measly 2nd HL. Indeed, no RIF RAFF allowed in the HL. Our sights are much higher. What other league can boast teams so powerful, they only need to field 5 players. Really a team of 5 players. We laugh at the NCCAs, our representative to the tournament is so good, we will give everyone else a head start and play an extra game. To bring a program in that has Net Rating of 112, is morally distasteful. They may corrupt the very foundation of what have accomplished. After all, we are trying to make the HL better. Everyone knows it's not talent or track records that are valid measuring sticks. Such Pitiful metrics fail to illustrate the appropriate level of success. They need more gold in their coffers. Only alchemists can create success with insufficient dollars. Yeah AZ, I can't wait. |
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Post by gbanks on Dec 31, 2023 17:14:30 GMT -5
I thought I take a look at expansion candidates as we enter 2024. Good thing we did not recruit Morehead St into the HL. Their Net Rating is way too high for the HL. Bellamine and Southern is much more our speed.
Morehead St - 114
Bellamine - 274
Southern Ind. - 342
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