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Post by Admin on Mar 23, 2023 7:55:11 GMT -5
The guard who is transferring out of Arkansas State, Terrance Ford, would be perfect. 10.8 points per game, 2.8 assists and 40.6% from three point range as a freshman. Won't be easy to get him though. Northern Kentucky, Akron, Drake, Saint Louis and Wyoming have also offered him
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Post by frankiemeatballs on Mar 24, 2023 8:17:11 GMT -5
I think it’s more, you have two proven wings (Woodrich and Williams) and a proven big. I’m guessing Robinson wants to add some proven guards and another big. Let proven guards play while the kids grow up a bit more. I always considered Williams a guard. Also, Enaruna should be paired with another big on the floor. Don't want to see him is the same situation as Grady. Williams and Enaruna really needs to develop an outside shot this summer. Both greatly contibuted to clogging up the paint on offense. This also forces the need for at least two other players on the floor as 3 point threats. Given that there are 4 open spots, I'm ok with a scoring PG that is eligible to play next year. In a traditional sense, Williams played the 3 for CSU. But he’ll likely move to the 4 next year without Spider, and Enaruna will play the 5. That leaves 3 openings for guards in the starting lineup (potentially Lowder, Pryor and Woodrich). Although I loved Spider, we’ll be just fine with Enaruna at the 5. He displayed a strong ability to protect the rim and we don’t face many (if any) traditional back to the basket bangers in the HL. Annette showed more promise than Middleton in a small sample size. I think he has potential to be a solid player. The need is for one more 5 who can compete with Arnette for the backup minutes with the loser providing depth (knowing that last year our starting 4 was essentially the backup 5 and that won’t be the case with Williams so there will be minutes for 3 players at the 5). I agree with the comment above that I’d be more comfortably with a new starting PG so Lowder can play off the ball as a combo guard. Transfer PG, Lowder, Woodrich, Williams, Enaruna with Pryor as 6th man would be our best lineup I think. That means starting PG and backup 5 are the biggest needs to fill this cycle.
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Post by gbanks on Mar 24, 2023 9:49:35 GMT -5
We may be splitting hairs with Williams. Enarua at 5 reminds of the same situation we placed Anton Grady in a decade ago. Neither is a great fit at 5. Enaruna will be over matched and more likely to get injured.
The only upside I see with Wiliams and Enarua at 4 and 5 repectively is that they already clog the paint on offense (not really an upside). Defensively against good teams, they will both be at a size disavantage.
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Post by vikesfan on Mar 24, 2023 10:13:08 GMT -5
We may be splitting hairs with Williams. Enarua at 5 reminds of the same situation we placed Anton Grady in a decade ago. Neither is a great fit at 5. Enaruna will be over matched and more likely to get injured. The only upside I see with Wiliams and Enarua at 4 and 5 repectively is that they already clog the paint on offense (not really an upside). Defensively against good teams, they will both be at a size disavantage. Wow, don’t be so positive about the amazing talent we have returning… also, your argument isn’t the greatest. This is college hoops not the NBA. FDU just beat Purdue and took FAU to the wire without a guy over 6’6”. Miami plays in the sweet sixteen tonight and their tallest starter is 6’7 with 4 guards around him. NKU won our league this year playing basically no one over 6’8. YSU dominated the league this year with their tallest contributor being 6’8. Kent dominated the MAC this year, played one guy over 6’8 and he was 6’9. Toledo had a very good year in the MAC, played one guy over 6’7 and he played 12 mins a game. The giants you’re talking about at the mid major level just don’t exist haha. How many teams in the HL start two legit bigs? Actual question I want gbanks to answer. Enaruna 6’8 220 and Williams 6’7 205 isn’t a disadvantage from a size perspective in the HL and there won’t be a frontline more athletic than that anywhere in the HL or other mid majors.
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Post by gbanks on Mar 24, 2023 13:11:33 GMT -5
We may be splitting hairs with Williams. Enarua at 5 reminds of the same situation we placed Anton Grady in a decade ago. Neither is a great fit at 5. Enaruna will be over matched and more likely to get injured. The only upside I see with Wiliams and Enarua at 4 and 5 repectively is that they already clog the paint on offense (not really an upside). Defensively against good teams, they will both be at a size disavantage. Wow, don’t be so positive about the amazing talent we have returning… also, your argument isn’t the greatest. This is college hoops not the NBA. FDU just beat Purdue and took FAU to the wire without a guy over 6’6”. Miami plays in the sweet sixteen tonight and their tallest starter is 6’7 with 4 guards around him. NKU won our league this year playing basically no one over 6’8. YSU dominated the league this year with their tallest contributor being 6’8. Kent dominated the MAC this year, played one guy over 6’8 and he was 6’9. Toledo had a very good year in the MAC, played one guy over 6’7 and he played 12 mins a game. The giants you’re talking about at the mid major level just don’t exist haha. How many teams in the HL start two legit bigs? Actual question I want gbanks to answer. Enaruna 6’8 220 and Williams 6’7 205 isn’t a disadvantage from a size perspective in the HL and there won’t be a frontline more athletic than that anywhere in the HL or other mid majors. Note: I said "Good Teams" not current HL teams. We need to win OOC games in order to progress. Unless you seeking a 16 seed (normally reservered for the peewee entry in NCAAs). Consider when the HL was a decent conference. We were able to recuit good local talent for a few years. Anton is an example of a big that would have been slotted as a 4 in most other programs. A very good player at 6'8" 225. Often played against larger oppents. Lots of wear and tear and got injured early in his sophmore year. Although still played well, felt he was never the same. If you plan on scheduling and winning against good OOC opponents, then you will need the size and the talent. Before you venture in saying the Vikes can't recruit those types of players and win OOC games against good teams, take a look at the 2011-12 season.
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Post by frankiemeatballs on Mar 24, 2023 13:25:25 GMT -5
We may be splitting hairs with Williams. Enarua at 5 reminds of the same situation we placed Anton Grady in a decade ago. Neither is a great fit at 5. Enaruna will be over matched and more likely to get injured. The only upside I see with Wiliams and Enarua at 4 and 5 repectively is that they already clog the paint on offense (not really an upside). Defensively against good teams, they will both be at a size disavantage. I said all season that I thought Williams didn’t fit with the starting 5 because of his lack of shooting ability. Our best offensive lineup was either replacing Williams at the 3 or playing him at the 4 with Enaruna at the 5. You keep talking about not wanting to clog the lane (my point all season about Williams at the 3) but you want to keep two bigs and a non shooting wing in the starting lineup. I don’t understand. Clearly Williams is a starter. So he’s not being replaced at the 3 (thus adding another shooter) unless he plays the 4. We know that Robinson comes from a system of 4 guards/wings and 1 big. The writing is on the wall. And I think the move will make both players better. There wasn’t a 4 in the league who could stay in front of Enaruna and no 5 will be able to either. And he’s strong enough and plays well enough with his back to the basket that he won’t give up anything while adding to his advantage. With Williams, his best games came when he was able to beat his man to the basket. He’s much more likely to do that against a 4, and there won’t be two big men waiting for him underneath if he’s already left one of them behind. If we can add 3 shooters around the perimeter, we should be salivating at the possibilities this lineup could bring.
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Post by frankiemeatballs on Mar 24, 2023 13:30:17 GMT -5
Wow, don’t be so positive about the amazing talent we have returning… also, your argument isn’t the greatest. This is college hoops not the NBA. FDU just beat Purdue and took FAU to the wire without a guy over 6’6”. Miami plays in the sweet sixteen tonight and their tallest starter is 6’7 with 4 guards around him. NKU won our league this year playing basically no one over 6’8. YSU dominated the league this year with their tallest contributor being 6’8. Kent dominated the MAC this year, played one guy over 6’8 and he was 6’9. Toledo had a very good year in the MAC, played one guy over 6’7 and he played 12 mins a game. The giants you’re talking about at the mid major level just don’t exist haha. How many teams in the HL start two legit bigs? Actual question I want gbanks to answer. Enaruna 6’8 220 and Williams 6’7 205 isn’t a disadvantage from a size perspective in the HL and there won’t be a frontline more athletic than that anywhere in the HL or other mid majors. Note: I said "Good Teams" not current HL teams. We need to win OOC games in order to progress. Unless you seeking a 16 seed (normally reservered for the peewee entry in NCAAs). Consider when the HL was a decent conference. We were able to recuit good local talent for a few years. Anton is an example of a big that would have been slotted as a 4 in most other programs. A very good player at 6'8" 225. Often played against larger oppents. Lots of wear and tear and got injured early in his sophmore year. Although still played well, felt he was never the same. If you plan on scheduling and winning against good OOC opponents, then you will need the size and the talent. Before you venture in saying the Vikes can't recruit those types of players and win OOC games against good teams, take a look at the 2011-12 season. I don’t disagree that we should be thinking bigger, but you don’t construct your lineup for a handful of games. You build to win your conference. Sure, if we’re able to land a high major big like Hugley, you play him at the 5 and keep Enaruna and Williams in place and go for it. But I’m not forcing the issue with a less talented player just because he’s tall so I can have a perceived better matchup in 3 November non conference games.
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Post by vikesfan on Mar 24, 2023 14:02:29 GMT -5
Wow, don’t be so positive about the amazing talent we have returning… also, your argument isn’t the greatest. This is college hoops not the NBA. FDU just beat Purdue and took FAU to the wire without a guy over 6’6”. Miami plays in the sweet sixteen tonight and their tallest starter is 6’7 with 4 guards around him. NKU won our league this year playing basically no one over 6’8. YSU dominated the league this year with their tallest contributor being 6’8. Kent dominated the MAC this year, played one guy over 6’8 and he was 6’9. Toledo had a very good year in the MAC, played one guy over 6’7 and he played 12 mins a game. The giants you’re talking about at the mid major level just don’t exist haha. How many teams in the HL start two legit bigs? Actual question I want gbanks to answer. Enaruna 6’8 220 and Williams 6’7 205 isn’t a disadvantage from a size perspective in the HL and there won’t be a frontline more athletic than that anywhere in the HL or other mid majors. Note: I said "Good Teams" not current HL teams. We need to win OOC games in order to progress. Unless you seeking a 16 seed (normally reservered for the peewee entry in NCAAs). Consider when the HL was a decent conference. We were able to recuit good local talent for a few years. Anton is an example of a big that would have been slotted as a 4 in most other programs. A very good player at 6'8" 225. Often played against larger oppents. Lots of wear and tear and got injured early in his sophmore year. Although still played well, felt he was never the same. If you plan on scheduling and winning against good OOC opponents, then you will need the size and the talent. Before you venture in saying the Vikes can't recruit those types of players and win OOC games against good teams, take a look at the 2011-12 season. Are we talking about the same Anton Grady that averaged 14/8 his senior season, was healthy his entire junior and senior seasons and played himself onto a roster with Fred Van Vleet, Ron Baker, and Landry Shamet? I don’t think he had a hard time playing big man I’m the HL lol… Oh and when he transferred to Wichita State in 15-16 he started a # of games at center for them, and was their back up center in other games and they went to the second round of the tournament haha
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Post by gbanks on Mar 24, 2023 14:30:18 GMT -5
@ Vikesfan: Yes, the same Anton Grady. If you watched him pre-injury vs post, he lost a step or two. The injury I'm referencing is in his sophmore year with the Vikes.
@ Frankie: yes, build the team to win OOC games and dominate the HL. Not saying it's easy. Everyone is trying to do the same thing, it's hard (but not impossible). To aspire to be a good low major (and land a 16th seed), is a waste of time.
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Post by vikesfan on Mar 24, 2023 14:55:51 GMT -5
@ Vikesfan: Yes, the same Anton Grady. If you watched him pre-injury vs post, he lost a step or two. The injury I'm referencing is in his sophmore year with the Vikes. @ Frankie: yes, build the team to win OOC games and dominate the HL. Not saying it's easy. Everyone is trying to do the same thing, it's hard (but not impossible). To aspire to be a good low major (and land a 16th seed), is a waste of time. So what I’m hearing you say is that you would have rather started Luda Ndays or Devon Long in 2013-2014 instead of Jon Harris so Anton could play the 4 and have a bigger dude at C? Also, you may need to start with dominating the conference and getting 16 seeds year after year (something we don’t do) to get consistent funding in. Need to start somewhere…. You don’t jump from one NCAA tournament in a decade to a 13 seed overnight.
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Post by gbanks on Mar 24, 2023 16:39:41 GMT -5
@ Vikesfan: Yes, the same Anton Grady. If you watched him pre-injury vs post, he lost a step or two. The injury I'm referencing is in his sophmore year with the Vikes. @ Frankie: yes, build the team to win OOC games and dominate the HL. Not saying it's easy. Everyone is trying to do the same thing, it's hard (but not impossible). To aspire to be a good low major (and land a 16th seed), is a waste of time. So what I’m hearing you say is that you would have rather started Luda Ndays or Devon Long in 2013-2014 instead of Jon Harris so Anton could play the 4 and have a bigger dude at C? Also, you may need to start with dominating the conference and getting 16 seeds year after year (something we don’t do) to get consistent funding in. Need to start somewhere…. You don’t jump from one NCAA tournament in a decade to a 13 seed overnight. So now you picked the year Grady is back from his injury and damage is done. If you are going that route, you missed Scales. Dauda would have been the bigger option. Interesting how many bigs that team had and the organization could never figure out how to develop them. As I said before, Grady had lost a step or 2 and wasted his best years to develop him to a 4. Also, the HL had good sized 5s back then. Grady's advantage of using his speed over mass was deminished. Watch the games before and after the injury (if you can find them). What I think you are saying is that you don't have faith in the coach to recruit the players and I should lower my expectations (I won't). I do realize the better the team gets, the harder it will be to sustain. I remember when Waters had several teams with rating sub 100 and how hard it was to keep improving. But all that illustrates is that a mid major can do it. BTW, you can jump to a 13 seed after a very long time. The Vikings received a #13 seed. On March 20, 2009 Cleveland State defeated Wake Forest 84–69 and advanced to the second round of the NCAA Tournament.
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Post by frankiemeatballs on Mar 24, 2023 18:46:29 GMT -5
So what I’m hearing you say is that you would have rather started Luda Ndays or Devon Long in 2013-2014 instead of Jon Harris so Anton could play the 4 and have a bigger dude at C? Also, you may need to start with dominating the conference and getting 16 seeds year after year (something we don’t do) to get consistent funding in. Need to start somewhere…. You don’t jump from one NCAA tournament in a decade to a 13 seed overnight. So now you picked the year Grady is back from his injury and damage is done. If you are going that route, you missed Scales. Dauda would have been the bigger option. Interesting how many bigs that team had and the organization could never figure out how to develop them. As I said before, Grady had lost a step or 2 and wasted his best years to develop him to a 4. Also, the HL had good sized 5s back then. Grady's advantage of using his speed over mass was deminished. Watch the games before and after the injury (if you can find them). What I think you are saying is that you don't have faith in the coach to recruit the players and I should lower my expectations (I won't). I do realize the better the team gets, the harder it will be to sustain. I remember when Waters had several teams with rating sub 100 and how hard it was to keep improving. But all that illustrates is that a mid major can do it. BTW, you can jump to a 13 seed after a very long time. The Vikings received a #13 seed. On March 20, 2009 Cleveland State defeated Wake Forest 84–69 and advanced to the second round of the NCAA Tournament.The first point: I prefer to play the best 5, not force a 5 onto the court that isn’t the best 5 and doesn’t fit well together just to maintain traditional positions. The second point: CSU was a 13 seed because the HL was one of the best mid major conferences, not because they won a bunch of marquee non conference games. Even if we swept the non conference this year we weren’t going to be close to a 13.
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Post by vikesfan on Mar 24, 2023 18:49:30 GMT -5
So what I’m hearing you say is that you would have rather started Luda Ndays or Devon Long in 2013-2014 instead of Jon Harris so Anton could play the 4 and have a bigger dude at C? Also, you may need to start with dominating the conference and getting 16 seeds year after year (something we don’t do) to get consistent funding in. Need to start somewhere…. You don’t jump from one NCAA tournament in a decade to a 13 seed overnight. So now you picked the year Grady is back from his injury and damage is done. If you are going that route, you missed Scales. Dauda would have been the bigger option. Interesting how many bigs that team had and the organization could never figure out how to develop them. As I said before, Grady had lost a step or 2 and wasted his best years to develop him to a 4. Also, the HL had good sized 5s back then. Grady's advantage of using his speed over mass was deminished. Watch the games before and after the injury (if you can find them). What I think you are saying is that you don't have faith in the coach to recruit the players and I should lower my expectations (I won't). I do realize the better the team gets, the harder it will be to sustain. I remember when Waters had several teams with rating sub 100 and how hard it was to keep improving. But all that illustrates is that a mid major can do it. BTW, you can jump to a 13 seed after a very long time. The Vikings received a #13 seed. On March 20, 2009 Cleveland State defeated Wake Forest 84–69 and advanced to the second round of the NCAA Tournament.The Horizon League was miles ahead of where it was today in 2009… Gonna take a real special HL team to get a 13 seed right now. The HL back then was probably equivalent to the the A10 right now. Pretty easy for an A10 team to get a 12/13 seed. League strength matters a ton in seeding. And also, in 2009, as a 13 seed… our starting center was, get a load of this, 6’8. Maybe a reason none of these bugs develop is that it’s really, really hard to develop big men. There’s way fewer skilled big men than guards.
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Post by gbanks on Mar 24, 2023 20:31:48 GMT -5
So now you picked the year Grady is back from his injury and damage is done. If you are going that route, you missed Scales. Dauda would have been the bigger option. Interesting how many bigs that team had and the organization could never figure out how to develop them. As I said before, Grady had lost a step or 2 and wasted his best years to develop him to a 4. Also, the HL had good sized 5s back then. Grady's advantage of using his speed over mass was deminished. Watch the games before and after the injury (if you can find them). What I think you are saying is that you don't have faith in the coach to recruit the players and I should lower my expectations (I won't). I do realize the better the team gets, the harder it will be to sustain. I remember when Waters had several teams with rating sub 100 and how hard it was to keep improving. But all that illustrates is that a mid major can do it. BTW, you can jump to a 13 seed after a very long time. The Vikings received a #13 seed. On March 20, 2009 Cleveland State defeated Wake Forest 84–69 and advanced to the second round of the NCAA Tournament.The Horizon League was miles ahead of where it was today in 2009… Gonna take a real special HL team to get a 13 seed right now. The HL back then was probably equivalent to the the A10 right now. Pretty easy for an A10 team to get a 12/13 seed. League strength matters a ton in seeding. And also, in 2009, as a 13 seed… our starting center was, get a load of this, 6’8. Maybe a reason none of these bugs develop is that it’s really, really hard to develop big men. There’s way fewer skilled big men than guards. Since you like to make stuff up, I will stick with the facts: 2009 Starting Center - Chris Moore listed at 6'9". However, you mistaken thinking that I'm advocating a pro lineup. I'm saying specifically that Enarua like Grady is better suited NOT playing center (as players). If I am Enarua (and asked to play center), I'm on way to the portal and not looking back. Waters and team was great at developing guards. The bigs in general tended to underperform. Focus was on defense (to a fault). Seen flashes of Dauda in pick and roll successes. Those rare times were most likely out of the flow of the game and not a set play. We agree the HL was a better conference at that time. What you not stating is how bad the Vikes were in the previous 10 years. Did we deserve the 13th seed, yes (maybe better).
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Post by gbanks on Mar 24, 2023 20:45:13 GMT -5
So now you picked the year Grady is back from his injury and damage is done. If you are going that route, you missed Scales. Dauda would have been the bigger option. Interesting how many bigs that team had and the organization could never figure out how to develop them. As I said before, Grady had lost a step or 2 and wasted his best years to develop him to a 4. Also, the HL had good sized 5s back then. Grady's advantage of using his speed over mass was deminished. Watch the games before and after the injury (if you can find them). What I think you are saying is that you don't have faith in the coach to recruit the players and I should lower my expectations (I won't). I do realize the better the team gets, the harder it will be to sustain. I remember when Waters had several teams with rating sub 100 and how hard it was to keep improving. But all that illustrates is that a mid major can do it. BTW, you can jump to a 13 seed after a very long time. The Vikings received a #13 seed. On March 20, 2009 Cleveland State defeated Wake Forest 84–69 and advanced to the second round of the NCAA Tournament.The first point: I prefer to play the best 5, not force a 5 onto the court that isn’t the best 5 and doesn’t fit well together just to maintain traditional positions. The second point: CSU was a 13 seed because the HL was one of the best mid major conferences, not because they won a bunch of marquee non conference games. Even if we swept the non conference this year we weren’t going to be close to a 13. LOL, our OOC schedule was rather week and we lost to a D2 program. Sweeping those games might made us a 15. Again, I never advocated a traditional lineup. In fact, mid season I advocated a smaller lineup.
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Post by frankiemeatballs on Mar 25, 2023 6:15:28 GMT -5
Again, I never advocated a traditional lineup. In fact, mid season I advocated a smaller lineup. I’m not trying to argue and I appreciate the conversation. The way I’m reading your points, it’s coming off contradictory. You want to go smaller, you want to stop clogging the lane, you want a true 5 with Enaruna at 4 and non-shooter Williams at 3. I’m not sure how all of those points reconcile. I’m genuinely asking, how are you going to get the best 5 on the court in a way that improves shooting and offensive flow?
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Post by gbanks on Mar 25, 2023 7:25:59 GMT -5
Again, I never advocated a traditional lineup. In fact, mid season I advocated a smaller lineup. I’m not trying to argue and I appreciate the conversation. The way I’m reading your points, it’s coming off contradictory. You want to go smaller, you want to stop clogging the lane, you want a true 5 with Enaruna at 4 and non-shooter Williams at 3. I’m not sure how all of those points reconcile. I’m genuinely asking, how are you going to get the best 5 on the court in a way that improves shooting and offensive flow? Williams is ideal for the old Mackey "Run and Stun" style of play. As long as Williams is a 1 demensional slash and dunk, I prefered a smaller lineup (by sitting him). If teams pack the paint, and they do, that negates his advantage in a half court offense. Last season, Enaruna, was not anchored to the 5 spot and there were mismatches he could exploit. By placing him at the 5, I expect his production to decrease, an increase in fouls, and a removeal of a mis matches to exploit. You just removed one of your strengths and made it a potential weakness. Thus it would be in the team's and his best interest to play 4, develop an outside shot, and contine to build on his strenghts. The way I see it, the coach needs to recruit a better version of Spyder at the 5 and Enauna and Williams to develop a respectable outside shot. That will allow the Vikes to free up the paint and the players to have a better shot of landing an overseas gig. That would be a win/win for the team and the players.
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Post by csuvikings2014 on Mar 25, 2023 13:22:40 GMT -5
Good discussion I just caught up reading here.
First, better versions of Spider don't play in the HL. If he had any sort of offensive game, he's not at CSU.
Second, a player like Enaruna isn't found in the Horizon League. He could legitimately play the 3, 4 or 5. But his value is as a sort of stretch 5 that is still great in the post and slashing to the basket. I think he stays because the offense always ran through him with the game on the line and most of the second half of the season. Next season, if he's CSU starting center, forget about the HL trying to match up with him (they couldn't do that this year), I think most other schools outside of the elites will struggle to defend him. Who are you going to put on him? Your 6'9"-7' big? Good luck with that guy being quick enough. And if you do have an athletic F/C that can defend, then who do you defend Williams with?
I think the starting 5 right now (will change as we see who comes in) is Enaruna, Williams, Lowder, Pryor, Woodrich. No one in the HL will be able to go man-to-man with Enaruna and Williams on the court at the same time. If any of those other guys are hitting on the outside, they'll be tough to beat. If Williams develops any semblance of a consistent outside shot and the core stays healthy all season, you're looking at a 23-25 win team - IF, and it's a big IF...
What this team needs is a point guard. Lowder isn't a 30 minute PG and there really isn't a backup PG right now, either. I hope they find one in the portal.
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Post by gbanks on Mar 25, 2023 15:59:32 GMT -5
Good discussion I just caught up reading here. First, better versions of Spider don't play in the HL. If he had any sort of offensive game, he's not at CSU. Second, a player like Enaruna isn't found in the Horizon League. He could legitimately play the 3, 4 or 5. But his value is as a sort of stretch 5 that is still great in the post and slashing to the basket. I think he stays because the offense always ran through him with the game on the line and most of the second half of the season. Next season, if he's CSU starting center, forget about the HL trying to match up with him (they couldn't do that this year), I think most other schools outside of the elites will struggle to defend him. Who are you going to put on him? Your 6'9"-7' big? Good luck with that guy being quick enough. And if you do have an athletic F/C that can defend, then who do you defend Williams with? I think the starting 5 right now (will change as we see who comes in) is Enaruna, Williams, Lowder, Pryor, Woodrich. No one in the HL will be able to go man-to-man with Enaruna and Williams on the court at the same time. If any of those other guys are hitting on the outside, they'll be tough to beat. If Williams develops any semblance of a consistent outside shot and the core stays healthy all season, you're looking at a 23-25 win team - IF, and it's a big IF... What this team needs is a point guard. Lowder isn't a 30 minute PG and there really isn't a backup PG right now, either. I hope they find one in the portal. First, welcome to the discussion. Many folks are basically saying " if only the coach would started some combination of the existing players (leaving out the seniors) , we would have won the HL and HLT". Sorry, I'm buying that. Doing the same thing, you typically get same results. Enaruna is a good player, I'm not saying otherwise. Sure he may be quicker than some of the other bigs (see Anton discussion points); but, he also has to guard those guys in the half court. I see fouls and wear and tear. What you see? He wont wont be very quick on the bench (because he is foul trouble). We had a better Spider with Algevon Eichelberger (when healthy). Thus it can be done. As for who the HL draws as players, I don't really care. The coach has to recruit what is required to play for the Vikes (not UIPUI). He knew that when he signed the contract. The job is hard; but, history has illustrated it can be done.
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Post by frankiemeatballs on Mar 25, 2023 17:31:12 GMT -5
Good discussion I just caught up reading here. First, better versions of Spider don't play in the HL. If he had any sort of offensive game, he's not at CSU. Second, a player like Enaruna isn't found in the Horizon League. He could legitimately play the 3, 4 or 5. But his value is as a sort of stretch 5 that is still great in the post and slashing to the basket. I think he stays because the offense always ran through him with the game on the line and most of the second half of the season. Next season, if he's CSU starting center, forget about the HL trying to match up with him (they couldn't do that this year), I think most other schools outside of the elites will struggle to defend him. Who are you going to put on him? Your 6'9"-7' big? Good luck with that guy being quick enough. And if you do have an athletic F/C that can defend, then who do you defend Williams with? I think the starting 5 right now (will change as we see who comes in) is Enaruna, Williams, Lowder, Pryor, Woodrich. No one in the HL will be able to go man-to-man with Enaruna and Williams on the court at the same time. If any of those other guys are hitting on the outside, they'll be tough to beat. If Williams develops any semblance of a consistent outside shot and the core stays healthy all season, you're looking at a 23-25 win team - IF, and it's a big IF... What this team needs is a point guard. Lowder isn't a 30 minute PG and there really isn't a backup PG right now, either. I hope they find one in the portal. First, welcome to the discussion. Many folks are basically saying " if only the coach would started some combination of the existing players (leaving out the seniors) , we would have won the HL and HLT". Sorry, I'm buying that. Doing the same thing, you typically get same results. Enaruna is a good player, I'm not saying otherwise. Sure he may be quicker than some of the other bigs (see Anton discussion points); but, he also has to guard those guys in the half court. I see fouls and wear and tear. What you see? He wont wont be very quick on the bench (because he is foul trouble). We had a better Spider with Algevon Eichelberger (when healthy). Thus it can be done. As for who the HL draws as players, I don't really care. The coach has to recruit what is required to play for the Vikes (not UIPUI). He knew that when he signed the contract. The job is hard; but, history has illustrated it can be done. I don’t think anybody is saying that. I know I’m saying we need shooters. A shooting PG that would allow Lowder to play off the ball. And then Woodrich at the 3 (or an upgrade recruit/transfer). That’s 1-2 new shooters who aren’t currently on the roster that would make the new lineup work. In terms of Enaruna playing defense, can you name a HL center that you’re worried about him guarding? Without looking it up, he’s likely taller/as tall and heavier than most of last year’s starting 5’s. He also played 10 minutes per game on average at the 5 when Spider wasn’t on the floor. He was fine. Teams who had a second big (or a taller wing) would sometimes switch their best post defender onto Enaruna anyway because they could “hide” the other big/taller wing on Spider and help off him if Enaruna beat the big. Again, he was fine.
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Post by gbanks on Mar 26, 2023 9:00:02 GMT -5
Folks not a bad discussion. I hope no one is taking any of this personally. N. KY. beat us because they knew we scored at the basket. They clogged up the paint and dared us to shoot 3s (hey we maded some). So how do you gaurd players like Wiliams, you wait for him to come to you at basket. 5 to 10 years ago, you could gradually build up programs. Today it's too dynamic and you have to build and scale fast. The players are going to move around for their best chance to shine in a successful program. For those who want a chance to play after college, you have to provide a win/win situation. What works in the HL may not translate in the "Real world". The player will weigh "taking one for the team" against "how do I market this for my next gig". You are forced to quickly build teams to win on the largest stage you can find. There are 3 brands to consider, the schools, the coaches, and the players. All things considered, last season can be sold to recruits. This is Robinsons 2nd year and the 1st full year of recruiting. This is his chance to place his signature on the program. He's got to be always closing. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by vikesfan on Mar 26, 2023 19:51:15 GMT -5
I’m cautiously optimistic that the transfers and graduation announcements are done. A bunch of current and former Vikes (Hodge, Gomillion, Patton, Beaudion, etc.) were on campu playing with current members of the team. Seems to be a pretty close knit crew.
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Post by vikesfan on Mar 27, 2023 15:09:23 GMT -5
I’d love to see the Vikes go after RJ Sunahara from Bay. Just scored 28 in the D2 championship and win player of the year in D2. Would be a great fit alongside Enaruna. Believe he has one year of eligibility. More realistic than Hugley IMO.
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Post by ede on Mar 27, 2023 15:44:57 GMT -5
I’d love to see the Vikes go after RJ Sunahara from Bay. Just scored 28 in the D2 championship and win player of the year in D2. Would be a great fit alongside Enaruna. Believe he has one year of eligibility. More realistic than Hugley IMO. CSU is tough sale to Hughley.
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Post by gbanks on Mar 27, 2023 19:55:24 GMT -5
I’d love to see the Vikes go after RJ Sunahara from Bay. Just scored 28 in the D2 championship and win player of the year in D2. Would be a great fit alongside Enaruna. Believe he has one year of eligibility. More realistic than Hugley IMO. CSU is tough sale to Hughley. Considering the teams in the final 4, I don't think getting a prospect to imagine wearing Viking green is impossible.
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Post by azvike83 on Mar 28, 2023 8:09:26 GMT -5
6' 11" Dieonte Miles from Xavier is transferring....would be a perfect fit to replace Spider, but hearing NKU is all over him (he's from Walton, KY)...
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Post by ede on Mar 28, 2023 11:14:32 GMT -5
CSU is tough sale to Hughley. Considering the teams in the final 4, I don't think getting a prospect to imagine wearing Viking green is impossible. impossible, never said that, just with the offers he's getting. He might end up right back at Pitt. NIL has a lot of students chasing money. Could be just testing the waters.
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Post by vikesfan on Mar 28, 2023 12:00:19 GMT -5
Nothing developing on the recruiting front… patience is a virtue though. We still aren’t adding to the list of those departing though which is great news to keep our core in place.
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Post by azvike83 on Mar 28, 2023 12:22:01 GMT -5
with 3 spots to fill, I would like to see a "ready-to-play" JUCO and another 2 freshman to go along with incoming JUCO Jalin Rice and Freshman Danny Young. Should be an even better team than last year hopefully!
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Post by ac on Mar 28, 2023 13:23:44 GMT -5
Correction 4 open spots not 3.
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