|
Post by ede on Mar 6, 2021 2:58:44 GMT -5
Dennis Gates is making national Headlines. According to ESPN Penn State,Boston College and Maybe DePaul may want to talk to him. If we lose Gates promote and assistant Drew Joyce or Summers,so hopefully we don't lose recruits.Let's keep the culture of winning intact.
|
|
|
Post by frankiemeatballs on Mar 6, 2021 7:47:35 GMT -5
The question to me is which of the assistants would be willing to stay and not follow Gates.
Summers and Joyce seem to be the obvious answers since neither has worked with Gates before CSU and both are from Ohio. Of the two, Summers has much more experience even though they’re the same age (due to Joyce’s playing career this is his first coaching job). Summers even has head coaching experience at the D2 level.
An interesting thought is Dicky Nut, who is in a support role on staff. Nutt likely would follow Gates as both are disciples of Leonard Hilton and worked together at FSU. But if Nutt is interested in getting back into an active coaching role, having someone with his experience as the lead assistant would be beneficial to a coach like Summers.
Summers, Nutt, Joyce as the top 3 would be a pretty good start. Then they could add a young assistant to fill out the staff.
|
|
|
Post by theonetheonly on Mar 6, 2021 9:40:16 GMT -5
The question to me is which of the assistants would be willing to stay and not follow Gates. Summers and Joyce seem to be the obvious answers since neither has worked with Gates before CSU and both are from Ohio. Of the two, Summers has much more experience even though they’re the same age (due to Joyce’s playing career this is his first coaching job). Summers even has head coaching experience at the D2 level. An interesting thought is Dicky Nut, who is in a support role on staff. Nutt likely would follow Gates as both are disciples of Leonard Hilton and worked together at FSU. But if Nutt is interested in getting back into an active coaching role, having someone with his experience as the lead assistant would be beneficial to a coach like Summers. Summers, Nutt, Joyce as the top 3 would be a pretty good start. Then they could add a young assistant to fill out the staff. You wouldn’t keep both Summers and Joyce in my opinion. The non head coach would benefit more from following Gates.
|
|
|
Post by frankiemeatballs on Mar 6, 2021 9:43:44 GMT -5
The question to me is which of the assistants would be willing to stay and not follow Gates. Summers and Joyce seem to be the obvious answers since neither has worked with Gates before CSU and both are from Ohio. Of the two, Summers has much more experience even though they’re the same age (due to Joyce’s playing career this is his first coaching job). Summers even has head coaching experience at the D2 level. An interesting thought is Dicky Nut, who is in a support role on staff. Nutt likely would follow Gates as both are disciples of Leonard Hilton and worked together at FSU. But if Nutt is interested in getting back into an active coaching role, having someone with his experience as the lead assistant would be beneficial to a coach like Summers. Summers, Nutt, Joyce as the top 3 would be a pretty good start. Then they could add a young assistant to fill out the staff. You wouldn’t keep both Summers and Joyce in my opinion. The non head coach would benefit more from following Gates. I don’t disagree but I think it would be more about who Gates would want on his staff. He clearly brought Summers and Joyce on for Ohio recruiting connections. If he ends up at BC, Penn State or Butler, for example, he might want an alum or person from that area to fill out his staff. Knowing he’d likely bring his trusted FSU staff with him.
|
|
|
Post by ede on Mar 6, 2021 11:58:18 GMT -5
You wouldn’t keep both Summers and Joyce in my opinion. The non head coach would benefit more from following Gates. I don’t disagree but I think it would be more about who Gates would want on his staff. He clearly brought Summers and Joyce on for Ohio recruiting connections. If he ends up at BC, Penn State or Butler, for example, he might want an alum or person from that area to fill out his staff. Knowing he’d likely bring his trusted FSU staff with him. excellent point. Summers is the one I would like to see. With Nutt as his number 1 assistant then Joyce. Nutt might be in retirement mode. I think it's more than a 50percent chance we lose gate unless CSU comes up with some serious money like Wichita State did it the Zags with Mark Few. That's how u become a mid major power,keep your coach. Like I said Cleveland State needs it OWN version of the Koch brothers to make it happen.
|
|
|
Post by theonetheonly on Mar 7, 2021 7:05:55 GMT -5
I don’t disagree but I think it would be more about who Gates would want on his staff. He clearly brought Summers and Joyce on for Ohio recruiting connections. If he ends up at BC, Penn State or Butler, for example, he might want an alum or person from that area to fill out his staff. Knowing he’d likely bring his trusted FSU staff with him. excellent point. Summers is the one I would like to see. With Nutt as his number 1 assistant then Joyce. Nutt might be in retirement mode. I think it's more than a 50percent chance we lose gate unless CSU comes up with some serious money like Wichita State did it the Zags with Mark Few. That's how u become a mid major power,keep your coach. Like I said Cleveland State needs it OWN version of the Koch brothers to make it happen. That’s not necessarily true. Butler became a powerhouse by hiring the right coach multiple times in a row.
|
|
|
Post by gbanks on Mar 7, 2021 9:43:10 GMT -5
excellent point. Summers is the one I would like to see. With Nutt as his number 1 assistant then Joyce. Nutt might be in retirement mode. I think it's more than a 50percent chance we lose gate unless CSU comes up with some serious money like Wichita State did it the Zags with Mark Few. That's how u become a mid major power,keep your coach. Like I said Cleveland State needs it OWN version of the Koch brothers to make it happen. That’s not necessarily true. Butler became a powerhouse by hiring the right coach multiple times in a row. To Toto's point see the progression of coaches that contributed to the strength of their program. Also consider that each of the coaches below went on to bigger and better things. However, with the exception of Thad, each of the Butler coaches provided multiple years of success. Because college programs relies on past success to build recruitment momentum, there has to be some level of continuity. Otherwise, a program will not have the runway to take off. Barry Collier | 1989 - 2000 | 196 - 132 | Appeared in the NCAAs his last 3 years | Thad Matta | 2000 - 2001 | 24 - 8 | Appeared in the NCAA his only year | Todd Lickliter | 2001 - 2007 | 131 - 61 | Appeared in the NCAA twice | Brad Stevens | 2007 - 2013 | 166 - 49 | Appeared in the NCAA 5 times |
After that Butler took a hit, with a reprise during the Chris Holtmann years were the Bulldogs went 70 - 31 and appeared in the NCAAs 3 times.
|
|
|
Post by ede on Mar 7, 2021 10:27:48 GMT -5
excellent point. Summers is the one I would like to see. With Nutt as his number 1 assistant then Joyce. Nutt might be in retirement mode. I think it's more than a 50percent chance we lose gate unless CSU comes up with some serious money like Wichita State did it the Zags with Mark Few. That's how u become a mid major power,keep your coach. Like I said Cleveland State needs it OWN version of the Koch brothers to make it happen. That’s not necessarily true. Butler became a powerhouse by hiring the right coach multiple times in a row. Butler became a powerhouse by keeping a line of succession going that had links to the program from Barry Collier to Brad Stevens. So as not to disrupt recruiting.
|
|
|
Post by theonetheonly on Mar 7, 2021 16:01:33 GMT -5
I have had multiple people tell me they are hearing Gates is out in the past few days. Don’t have a 100 percent verification he is gone but it seems likely. I also think Summers and Joyce wouldn’t be the first option. I think it’s possible Jordan Mincy would be back in the running.
|
|
|
Post by ede on Mar 7, 2021 16:12:48 GMT -5
That’s not necessarily true. Butler became a powerhouse by hiring the right coach multiple times in a row. To Toto's point see the progression of coaches that contributed to the strength of their program. Also consider that each of the coaches below went on to bigger and better things. However, with the exception of Thad, each of the Butler coaches provided multiple years of success. Because college programs relies on past success to build recruitment momentum, there has to be some level of continuity. Otherwise, a program will not have the runway to take off. Barry Collier | 1989 - 2000 | 196 - 132 | Appeared in the NCAAs his last 3 years | Thad Matta | 2000 - 2001 | 24 - 8 | Appeared in the NCAA his only year | Todd Lickliter | 2001 - 2007 | 131 - 61 | Appeared in the NCAA twice | Brad Stevens | 2007 - 2013 | 166 - 49 | Appeared in the NCAA 5 times |
After that Butler took a hit, with a reprise during the Chris Holtmann years were the Bulldogs went 70 - 31 and appeared in the well said NCAAs 3 times.
|
|
|
Post by ede on Mar 7, 2021 16:18:29 GMT -5
Yes but all those coaches had links to the program. That's my point, keep the same culture and philosophy going. If we lose Gates. Mincy is a bad choice. Summers should be promoted so we won't lose what we got. Joyce as his assistant so he can learn.If not we are rebuilding all over again. Players and recruits will transfer out.Why take a chance on losing that momentum.
|
|
|
Post by ac on Mar 8, 2021 10:39:33 GMT -5
This just seems all to fast. I like Gates but he hasn't done enough if I'm a p5 school.
|
|
|
Post by mrhoops on Mar 8, 2021 11:05:48 GMT -5
This just seems all to fast. I like Gates but he hasn't done enough if I'm a p5 school. Yeah AC in normal times I would agree with that. But here's a coach who's a two time COY and won a conference championship in the second year of a rebuild of a program that was on life support for years and left for dead.
His trademark is recruiting (as well as coaching style) and there are P5 schools that are desperate to reclaim glory. BC is one of those. It has a rich BB history and honestly, they've been horrendous for a long time. They'll drop $1-$2M a year easily on a coach like this if they believe he's their messiah. There are others.
Would like to see at least one more year with Gates, but not holding my breath.
|
|
|
Post by ede on Mar 8, 2021 11:11:34 GMT -5
This just seems all to fast. I like Gates but he hasn't done enough if I'm a p5 school. BC is a P5 school but it's a lower tier one. DePaul as well, were aren't talking Duke,North Carolina here,there stepping stone school to the elite They'd love to gave Gates. Remember Matta was Butler for one year.
|
|
|
Post by gbanks on Mar 8, 2021 11:35:32 GMT -5
Gates current Salary and incentives:
Cleveland State was a late addition to the 2019 college basketball coaching carousel as the university hired former Florida State assistant Dennis Gates to be its head coach.
Gates signed a five-year contract worth $1.45 million in total base salary with Cleveland State and Stadium obtained a copy of the contract via public records request.
Gates will make $280,000 in base salary during the 2019-20 season and his base salary will increase by $5,000 in each subsequent year. He’ll also receive $25,000 annually in additional compensation, bringing his 2019-20 compensation to $305,000, ignoring any other benefits and prior to any performance-based incentives.
He can earn the following incentives:
Conference Coach of the Year: $10,000 National Coach of the Year: $25,000 Conference regular season championship or co-championship: $10,000 If team’s regular season finish results in team being No. 2 or No. 3 seed in conference tournament: $7,500 If any season in the first three years of the contract term, team’s regular season winning percentage in conference play is at least .500: $5,000 Wins conference tournament: $15,000 If team wins opening round/first round game in the NCAA Tournament: $10,000 If team plays in the Sweet 16: $10,000 If team plays in the Elite Eight: $25,000 If team plays in the Final Four: $50,000 If team wins the national championship: $50,000 If team competes in the NIT: $5,000 If team wins the NIT: $10,000 If team is invited to participate in the CBI or CIT, and if team’s winning percentage for all regular season and postseason games is at least .500: $2,500 If team wins the CBI or CIT: $5,000
|
|
|
Post by gbanks on Mar 8, 2021 11:42:28 GMT -5
Gates name is appearing on message boards, articles, and blogs. Some are P5 schools. I could see some of these schools buying out his contract and providing him a substantial raise.
|
|
|
Post by ede on Mar 8, 2021 12:55:09 GMT -5
Gates name is appearing on message boards, articles, and blogs. Some are P5 schools. I could see some of these schools buying out his contract and providing him a substantial raise. yep he is hottest name in coaching right now
|
|
|
Post by frankiemeatballs on Mar 11, 2021 12:14:53 GMT -5
Who knows if this person is credible or not:
|
|
|
Post by theonetheonly on Mar 11, 2021 13:15:14 GMT -5
The timing of Gates leaving is relevant.
If Gates terminates the contract, he’ll owe the university the following:
$1.2 million: On or before May 1, 2020 $600,000: After May 1, 2020 but on/before April 1, 2021 $300,000: After April 1, 2021 but on/before April 1, 2022 $150,000: After April 1, 2022 but on/before April 1, 2023 No liquidated damages if coach terminates contract after April 1, 2023
If he leaves before April 1st we get 600,000. Only 300,000 if he leaves after. The 600,000 could cover a large portion of the next coaches contract.
|
|
|
Post by frankiemeatballs on Mar 11, 2021 13:20:06 GMT -5
The timing of Gates leaving is relevant. If Gates terminates the contract, he’ll owe the university the following: $1.2 million: On or before May 1, 2020 $600,000: After May 1, 2020 but on/before April 1, 2021 $300,000: After April 1, 2021 but on/before April 1, 2022 $150,000: After April 1, 2022 but on/before April 1, 2023 No liquidated damages if coach terminates contract after April 1, 2023 If he leaves before April 1st we get 600,000. Only 300,000 if he leaves after. The 600,000 could cover a large portion of the next coaches contract. Yep, that’s exactly what I was referring to in the thread on the recruiting board. I doubt a P5 school would hold off until May 1 just to save $300,000. I’m guessing he’ll be gone immediately after our season ends.
|
|
|
Post by frankiemeatballs on Mar 11, 2021 13:36:04 GMT -5
If Gates goes to BC (or somewhere similar) I wonder how that affects who might return, or even if some guys will try to follow him.
I could see Patton and Hodge being able to contribute at that level. Patton would be eligible immediately as a grad transfer while Hodge would have to sit out a year but would still have two years of eligibility with this year being a free season. (Although, Hodge is already 22. Who knows if he wants to be in college until he’s 25). I could even see Gomillion being an energy guy off the bench to help build culture (he’d also have to sit 1 with 2 to play).
With Gates returning, I could see both Patton and Beaudion opting back in (since neither is a 4 year player).
With a new coach coming in, I think it decreases the chance that any of the seniors decide to return.
I think Eichelberger is gone either way just because he’s older and has been in college for 5 years already.
If we return everyone without any seniors opting back in: Johnson, Hodge, Gomillion, Ogelsby, Hill, Woodrich, Greene (and Majak) plus the incoming freshman (assuming we keep them) is still a pretty good core.
|
|
|
Post by gbanks on Mar 11, 2021 13:58:59 GMT -5
If Gates goes to BC (or somewhere similar) I wonder how that affects who might return, or even if some guys will try to follow him. I could see Patton and Hodge being able to contribute at that level. Patton would be eligible immediately as a grad transfer while Hodge would have to sit out a year but would still have two years of eligibility with this year being a free season. (Although, Hodge is already 22. Who knows if he wants to be in college until he’s 25). I could even see Gomillion being an energy guy off the bench to help build culture (he’d also have to sit 1 with 2 to play). With Gates returning, I could see both Patton and Beaudion opting back in (since neither is a 4 year player). With a new coach coming in, I think it decreases the chance that any of the seniors decide to return. I think Eichelberger is gone either way just because he’s older and has been in college for 5 years already. If we return everyone without any seniors opting back in: Johnson, Hodge, Gomillion, Ogelsby, Hill, Woodrich, Greene (and Majak) plus the incoming freshman (assuming we keep them) is still a pretty good core. I could be wrong, I do not believe transfers have to sit out next season.
|
|
|
Post by gbanks on Mar 11, 2021 14:01:06 GMT -5
Who knows if this person is credible or not: This kind of news should have been held until after the NCAAs. The source has no class.
|
|
|
Post by frankiemeatballs on Mar 11, 2021 14:02:33 GMT -5
If Gates goes to BC (or somewhere similar) I wonder how that affects who might return, or even if some guys will try to follow him. I could see Patton and Hodge being able to contribute at that level. Patton would be eligible immediately as a grad transfer while Hodge would have to sit out a year but would still have two years of eligibility with this year being a free season. (Although, Hodge is already 22. Who knows if he wants to be in college until he’s 25). I could even see Gomillion being an energy guy off the bench to help build culture (he’d also have to sit 1 with 2 to play). With Gates returning, I could see both Patton and Beaudion opting back in (since neither is a 4 year player). With a new coach coming in, I think it decreases the chance that any of the seniors decide to return. I think Eichelberger is gone either way just because he’s older and has been in college for 5 years already. If we return everyone without any seniors opting back in: Johnson, Hodge, Gomillion, Ogelsby, Hill, Woodrich, Greene (and Majak) plus the incoming freshman (assuming we keep them) is still a pretty good core. I could be wrong, I do not believe transfers have to sit out next season. I’m not sure myself but I thought the rule got held up. Maybe that was for *this* year and next year it’s free reign.
|
|
|
Post by frankiemeatballs on Mar 11, 2021 15:00:35 GMT -5
Good call gbanks. I looked it up. It’s not in effect yet but a waiver is expected to be voted on in April that would be effective for the 2020-21 academic year. That would buy time for them to implement a permanent rule to start in 2021-22. So if that vote passes our entire team could transfer next year without having to sit out a year (and we could accept new players too).
|
|
|
Post by azvike83 on Mar 11, 2021 16:46:45 GMT -5
I'm still not convinced he's leaving (wishful thinking?...maybe). 1 tourney appearance is now all it takes for a MM coach to land a P5 job?
|
|
|
Post by frankiemeatballs on Mar 11, 2021 17:34:32 GMT -5
I'm still not convinced he's leaving (wishful thinking?...maybe). 1 tourney appearance is now all it takes for a MM coach to land a P5 job? I just think the rest of the sport knows how bad of a job CSU has been traditionally. Only two NCAA appearances ever, five straight 20 loss seasons, a player mutiny, only 4 players on the roster, and you go to the NCAA tourney in year 2? That gets people’s attention here more than it would other places.
|
|
|
Post by gbanks on Mar 11, 2021 18:07:34 GMT -5
I'm still not convinced he's leaving (wishful thinking?...maybe). 1 tourney appearance is now all it takes for a MM coach to land a P5 job? I just think the rest of the sport knows how bad of a job CSU has been traditionally. Only two NCAA appearances ever, five straight 20 loss seasons, a player mutiny, only 4 players on the roster, and you go to the NCAA tourney in year 2? That gets people’s attention here more than it would other places. The items you mentioning are very recent. What makes the Vikes HC job so tough is lack of fans and community support for the school. It makes local recruiting extremely difficult. Yes I agree, part of that has been only 2 appearances. With no community support no one has been able to capitalize on those 2 lonely appearances. Actually this year COVID has been the great equalizer and played into the program's advantage. - No one is allowed to have fans. That meant 2 things, the players did not have to be disappointed on seeing the poor attendance at the Wolstein. When playing away, the momentum of the game was not influenced by the crowd.
- I also noticed an up tick in favorable press coverage. That's great when people are cooped up and starving for news of the outside world. There has been some nice articles published about the Vikes. Stories that I have not seen in other years. Therefore the word of this year's success has spread and created some excitement.
From afar, there seems to be some momentum being generated by this years team. Team has a underdog story that people can relate to. It's a team that does not overpower the opponent; but, they work hard and find a way to win. I think it's a story that can sell in Cleveland and help gain that support. The opportunity is lost if this all dissipates before fans can actually start showing up to the games.
|
|
|
Post by theonetheonly on Mar 11, 2021 18:29:00 GMT -5
I'm still not convinced he's leaving (wishful thinking?...maybe). 1 tourney appearance is now all it takes for a MM coach to land a P5 job? If he doesn’t leave it’s because he chose to stay not because he doesn’t have offers. The offers are there. A lot of lower level power 5 schools are hoping to replicate FSU success.
|
|
|
Post by gbanks on Mar 11, 2021 18:35:33 GMT -5
I'm still not convinced he's leaving (wishful thinking?...maybe). 1 tourney appearance is now all it takes for a MM coach to land a P5 job? If he doesn’t leave it’s because he chose to stay not because he doesn’t have offers. The offers are there. A lot of lower level power 5 schools are hoping to replicate FSU success. Hey TOTO, quick question. Does he actually have offers or is he a candidate? I'm asking b/c I don't know.
|
|